neologist wrote:real life wrote:neologist wrote:real life wrote: . . .
The quotes that Neo provided are really not related to the concept of the rapture.
. . .
Other than to discredit it.
BTW, you speak of the "second coming" as if it were an arrival, rather than a presence. Not a small difference.
You could be waiting for something that is already here.
What is I Thes 4 referring to then, Neo?
I Thes 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Using the word 'coming' to mean 'arrival', right? What if it means 'presence'? The underlying Greek would indicate the latter.
Now , naturally to be 'present' , He would have to arrive first, yes?
When Jesus ascended bodily into heaven:
Quote:Acts 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
The angels said, as He departed, that He would return 'in like manner'.
If you are only looking for a 'spiritual presence' of Christ on Earth, then what do the passages in Acts and I Thes 4 refer to?
I Thes says He will 'descend' , there will be a shout and a trumpet, etc
What are these events and when will (or did) they occur?
Also the dead rising from their graves at the trump in I Thes is referred to again:
And once more, the trumpet is also mentioned in connection with the end of the age and the judging of the dead:
Quote:Rev 10:7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets...........
11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms[f] of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
" We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,[g]
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth."
And finally, Christ coming in clouds, with the sound of a trumpet to gather His elect:
Quote:Matt 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So if you don't believe in an actual return of Christ to Earth, just a 'spiritual presence', what do all these passages refer to?
