Ha, echi. My (rather intolerant) father in law, who was witness to my conversation with Mo, was none too pleased with me explaining that some people have rugs they unroll and they face Mecca and bow down, and some people dance, and some people chant and some people don't pray at all and some people ......
He and your grandmother would probably get along just fine.
Intrepid wrote:The closing of the eyes takes away any distraction and the folding of the hands gives reverence and since the hands are held near the heart, it symbolizes ones true heart attitude towards God.
Symbolizes to who? Is the point of your prayer to pray, or to display your actions to others (or to yourself)?
If the god you imagine, actually exists, then he already knows what is in your heart. Even a heathen like myself knows that the purity of prayer can only be achieved in private where it carries no meaning other than itself, and is not used as a display of piety.
Quote:--Matthew 6:6--
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Why is it that
I, a freaking agnostic, have to explain this to christians.
rosborne979 wrote:Symbolizes to who? Is the point of your prayer to pray, or to display your actions to others (or to yourself)?
Zackly.
When I hear of or see something on the news about thos mega-churches, my gut does a little twist.
To me, it is the antithsis of communing with God. Note, I say to me.
How can one be in the midst of thousands of people and even the ambient noise they would make, let alone the clapping, waving, testifying, etc, and suddenly when someone says "Let us pray" one is immediately able to block out the world merely by closing your eyes, and find that center that has eluded so many ernest seekers for thousands of years?
Chai wrote:How can one be in the midst of thousands of people and even the ambient noise they would make, let alone the clapping, waving, testifying, etc, and suddenly when someone says "Let us pray" one is immediately able to block out the world merely by closing your eyes, and find that center that has eluded so many ernest seekers for thousands of years?
That's why you find in many Catholic churches small side chapels "Only for prayers".
All these "up-and-down" traditions are ... liturgic traditions, from the times, when people didn't think for themselves and needed a
precursor, a
signpost for when to do what.
rosborne979 wrote:Intrepid wrote:The closing of the eyes takes away any distraction and the folding of the hands gives reverence and since the hands are held near the heart, it symbolizes ones true heart attitude towards God.
Symbolizes to who? Is the point of your prayer to pray, or to display your actions to others (or to yourself)?
If the god you imagine, actually exists, then he already knows what is in your heart. Even a heathen like myself knows that the purity of prayer can only be achieved in private where it carries no meaning other than itself, and is not used as a display of piety.
Quote:--Matthew 6:6--
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Why is it that
I, a freaking agnostic, have to explain this to christians.
You misinterpret this scripture as you do others.
Jesus prayed publicly on more than one occasion.
Matt 6 is not a prohibition against public prayer, but rather an admonishment as to the manner in which it is carried out.
real life wrote:You misinterpret this scripture as you do others.
Jesus prayed publicly on more than one occasion.
Matt 6 is not a prohibition against public prayer, but rather an admonishment as to the manner in which it is carried out.
And who made you the authority on interpreting the scripture? Looks to me like you don't know what the hell you're talking about again.
It's really sad when a christian just totally misses the point on one of the more beautiful messages from his own savior. You shouldn't even get to call yourself a christian. You seem to worship your own interpretation of everything. Do you pray to yourself as well.
Early in my "christianhood" I used to do the textbook version of prayer. Kneeling beside the bed, hands in the perfect position, head bowed, eyes closed. Eventually I graduated to just sitting in a chair with my eyes closed. Then I graduated to actually standing with my hands raised, or laying flat out on my bed. Interesting the different courses religion can take you... Now... Hum... I don't really pray but if I did I guess I would just talk to "God" like I would anybody else. Well, ok, probably not in the line at the grocery store or anything. LOL
Trimming trees is my religion.
Intrepid wrote:Prayer is not a ritual. It is a conversation with God. For one who professes to pray to not accept the way others pray is unusual and perhaps even rude.
Bit of a one-way conversation. (Sounds like an imaginary friend almost. Some people even think they hear their imaginary friend talking back. Some people need help.)
When in Rome, do as the Romans do, I suppose. Still, I don't see why even should be forced to conform to the status quo.
I abandoned organized religion at age fourteen. Since that time, any "prayer" in which i indulged took the form of panic in dangerous situations during which i would rapidly say: "Oh God, oh God, oh God . . . "
Bella Dea wrote:I just do it. I don't close my eyes or bow my head or fold my hands. I just do it. Like God is sitting right there. And I don't do it outloud. It's more like God and I are telepathic.
that's logical - to me!
I pray all the time...I do it in the car, washing dishes...wherever.
there is the other communal prayer at Church when I pray with other people and I either close my eyes or don't - I think the whole closing your eyes thing is to keep from being distracted from your original intention, I guess...and I never fold my hands....I might have taught the kids that when they were babies..but I kind of think that was to keep them from eating before we gave thanks...they don't do it anymore.
My prayer is a conversation between me and God and it can take place anywhere. It usually works best for me when I put away everything and focus on my conversation with him...but I can pray while cleaning and driving...nothing real deep there...
I think people should pray the way they are led
Two quick thoughts:
Having a good tv program interrupted by a commercial I pray silently, "God get this damn commercial off." He listens to me, and the commercial is gone in a few minutes. This also works, I believe, if one makes this prayer request to Jesus, or asks for intercession.
And, since there are supposedly no atheists in fox holes, should houses of worship get rid of the pews and have some sort of fox hole replica?
My lack of religious feelings is due to being force fed religion at an early age, when I would rather be outside running, jumping, playing with a Spaldeen (those pink rubber balls from earlier times).
If you pray for rain for long enough, it will rain.
A similar thing: a hundred people die in a plane accident, and one child lives. It's a miracle, apparently. (They convienently ignore the hundred innocent people that died).
@boomerang,
Sorry, for me for replying so late (Google put it at the top for that Tainted Love song quote). To me this issue is like complaining about doing the Macarana while The Electric Slide is playing. One chooses to go to the dance floor/event, and that one should have the respect to follow what is expected. There would be an argument for ignorance, however clearly you are not. To go to their ceremony, which you apparently don't believe in (in their chosen form) and not partake in their chosen ceremony is a bit of a slap in the face, at least to me. To me it doesn't matter what you did or didn't do, however in this situation (unless it offends you) I would suggest going with the crowd, at least for the happy couple.
@Vosar24,
So if you went to a wedding and were asked to pray to a God that was not your God, you'd have no problem joining in?
What if it was a Satanic wedding?
Would you suggest "going with the crowd"?
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
Prayer is not a ritual. It is a conversation with God. For one who professes to pray to not accept the way others pray is unusual and perhaps even rude.
Some prayers are not ritual. Some others are
exactly ritual.
Good to see this thread revived.
Back in my catholic days, my family was involved in The Rosary Crusade; the head of it, Father Patrick Peyton, would come to our house for dinner when he was in Chicago. We tried that out, saying the rosary as a family, but I don't remember it lasting too long. 'The family that prays together, stays together' was a sort of mantra.
The rosary, to me, then and now looking back, was a kind of meditation scenario.
Chai, on big churches, I remember going to two different Mary's Day events, one in the Marian Year at Soldiers Field in Chicago, and one at the LA Colosseum.
To quote a line from the book I just read, The Glittering Prizes, "My dear, the noise.. and the people!" That's not a direct quote as I can't just find the page. The sentence may have originated earlier than Frederic Raphael's book.
@Vosar24,
Vosar24 wrote:Sorry, for me for replying so late (Google put it at the top for that Tainted Love song quote).
To me this issue is like complaining about doing the Macarana while The Electric Slide is playing.
That is a very very
humorous way to put it!!!
I got a good laff out of that (not that I do much Sliding).
Vosar24 wrote:One chooses to go to the dance floor/event,
and that one should have the respect to follow what is expected.
U make a good argument.
David
@OmSigDAVID,
WHAT!?
Look, buster, I don't know what you've done with David but you need to not sneak into his A2K account. It's just not right.
Of all the people I "know" David is the one I would think would be least likely to do something just because everyone else is doing it.
@boomerang,
When I was younger I used to sing at a lot of weddings and funerals.. I always found it funny when the non-catholics tried to keep up with all the sitting, standing and kneeling. I used to think they should just relax, the bewildered looks on their faces made my day.
