What will evangelism achieve?

Mama angel, you've treaded this quicksand in the past and sank up to your nose. Personally I would learn to avoid quicksand.

Naive? Nah, I don't think so. Might be in some cases. But what so many do not seem to understand is if you believe in God you aren't going to change those beliefs other than what you may learn in the Bible. For me, if it doesn't line up with the Bible, then I won't accept it.

Can i ask how your sure the bible is the word of god? i mean honestly, they print them by the millions.

which version of the bible do you read? ive only read the king james.

'we' and 'us' , eh?

How many people do you speak for?

Why don't you let them speak for themselves, and you simply speak for yourself only?

If 'you' don't have an interest in religion, then let others decide for themselves if 'they' do or not.

Isn't it rather strange that you would presume to speak for the entire human race?

Honestly? Faith mostly but there is plenty of evidence for a lot of the Bible.

I read the King James and also the New International Version.

Hey Dys,

Quicksand for some, a mere mud puddle for others.

Arella Mae said: "First, nothing will make me stop worshipping God. I love him first and foremost. Afraid I'd go to hell? No way! I'd know I'd go to hell if I stopped believing and turned against God. But so what? Is it anyoe's business why I believe what I believe anyway? I am grateful I don't have to worry about going to hell and grateful for the blessings I receive as a believer."

You know you would go to hell? How have you come to know this?

No, it is noones elses business what you believe, but wouldn't you rather take a critical approach, as opposed to just simply believing something which is entirely uncertain, regardless of whether you think its true or not?

No it's not, you have every right to believe anything you desire to just as does everyone else.

Well, evangelism sure pisses a lot of people off--especially when them door-to-door jokers wake you up when you're snoozin' on the sofa, or, worse yet, when you're getting your monthly (if you're lucky) piece of tail in the afternoon . . .

Damned evangelists.

Not to put too fine a point on it . . . bullshit.

I know because of what the Bible says. I believe a person can lose their salvation.

Critical approach? It is NOT about proof. It is about FAITH. I believe I have more than enough proof, though I doubt it is proof you'd accept. I am happy with my beliefs and my life.

Rephrase: Plenty of evidence for me.

Well good for you Arella Mae.

If anything I envy your contentment.

Thank you Gilbey. That is very kind of you.

Beyond making some evangelists feel they are doing their duty, it seems highly uncertain what evangelism might achieve.

To complain that evangelicals do not ask themselves "What if I'm wrong," seems to ignore the fact that a practicing evangelical has (I am hoping) already made up his/her mind that he or she is right before trying to convert others.

One of our daughters is an evangelical, and she is distressed that I, according to her beliefs, am going to hell. As I do not believe in hell--or in most of the rest of her faith, I am not concerned about being chained to the burning black lake Milton describes. I am concerned, however, that my daughter worries about me--to my mind, unnecessarily. There is, however, nothing I can do about this, as she is free to believe whatever she wishes.

Occasionally, she and I discuss Bible stories (which I remember from having attended Episcopal schools, ages 2.5-17), which we both enjoy doing. And she knows that I do not wish to be converted, so she doesn't try anymore. This takes effort on her part, and I think she's being very polite to lay off the preaching at her father.

Although I agree with anyone's right to try converting another--as long as the target is free to walk away--I don't think it's my personal business to try to convert anyone to my belief (in a nutshell, the word of God is expressed through evolution). I used to become very annoyed when I was a schoolkid and would hear that "this week's collection is going to missionary work." Whatever the natives of wherever want to believe, that's cool with me. Leave them alone would be my choice. They might even be correct in their so-called primitive animist beliefs. Who knows? Anyone who believes his/her particular faith is THE answer and expresses that sentiment to me, has a good chance of rubbing me the wrong way. I hear hubris, and I start walking. But I do try to leave quietly.

So is your belief 'THE answer' ?

Might not you be wrong about what you believe?

Of course, my present belief may be dead wrong. I mentioned above that the odd (only to westerners) animist beliefs among, say, natives of New Guinea, may be CORRECT. Who knows? One needs to be flexible. Beliefs need not be forever fixed; they can evolve and still be valid for the believer. My belief system changes as I grow older and think more on the issue.

Miklos7, are you not worried that your daughter could just be living a lie?

All the things that your daughter believes in, all her values, her faith, could be misplaced. Of course so could yours, but the difference is that you seem to be sceptical about what you believe "my present belief may be dead wrong", but your daughter is convinced, it would seem.

Her beliefs could have devastating effects on her, if one day she decides that her religious faith was just a load of rubbish, and she has been living a life based on nothing but rubbish, her whole world could come crashing down around her.

Does that not worry you?

At the age of nearly 40, my older daughter's religious beliefs, though seemingly sincerely held, have a utilitarian as well as spiritual value: they help her maintain a positive attitude by which she can enjoy life and overcome obstacles that happen her way. She seems fully aware of this adaptive mechanism. If she grows away from her present beliefs, I am confident that she will replace them with others that are equally sustaining for however long. She is highly intelligent and flexible. So, no, I don't worry about her any more than any parent might worry about a well child. I do believe that once a parent, one is always a parent, and, as a natural consequence, one tends to be permanently interested in his children's well-being. However, I most certainly don't worry about "her whole world...crashing down around her," over a possible shift in the focus of her beliefs.

I did not know how old your daughter was.

This thread briefly focused on evangelical personalities. They come and go, some more persuasive than others. That really is not the issue, IMO.

The real problem with evangelism is the commandment by its so-called leader, found in the closing verses of Matthew: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

It would have been nice if the alleged author of those words had understood what his minions would do when they read those few words. They saw it as their manifest destiny. It was the cover needed for subjugating entire populations. God gave them a mandate to murder, all for the further glory of God.

This is the real problem with evangelism. It remains as lethal today as it has been over the centuries. If it is given one ounce of power, it will exercize that ounce to the limits, and demand more. All that stays its hand is the force of secularism.

So are you saying all evangelists murder? I'm sure you aren't, but that is what it seems to be implying.

Anyone that uses Christianity as an excuse to murder has no idea what Christianity is about.