flyboy804
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:46 am
DrewDad's diagram makes it quite clear. There are 2.54 cms per inch; hence 25.4 mms per inch; therefore one mm is equal to 1/25 of an inch.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 12:02 pm
Re: What is a Milimeter?
Montana wrote:
I'm confused between centimeters and milimeters Confused


I hope you've got some ASPRO (or aspirin, paracetamol), Montana! Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 01:45 pm
Quincy wrote:
Looking at that pic, sub-divisions of inches are too large if you want to get any sort of accuracy.
Entirely false for most of the building trades and proves my point you have no direct day-to-day working-man's tape measure experience.

There are a number of "tricks" to circumvent this apparent lack of accuracy! In fact the building trades rely on this "built-in play".
Quincy wrote:
...........your argument about divisibility of ten is a bit off........
False again and proves my point you have no direct day-to-day working-man's tape measure experience.

Same with the rest of your extrapolations based on your lack of how to use a measuring tape in the context of direct day-to-day working-man's tape measuring.

As discussed using a measuring system within the context of paperwork / computers / drawings / mathematics is simply not the same as the hands-on, day-to-day, working-man's tape measure usage.

You aptly demonstrate my assertion that oftentimes government officials and engineers are not well connected to the real world.

Quincy wrote:
I don't see why there is a problem with divisibility.
Get the two types of tape measures side by side in a fast-paced poorly-lit, dusty & dirty working environment, start measuring lengths of material very quickly, and immediately estimating divisible / multiple functions without using fractions.

1) Factor-ability stinks:

10/6 = 1.6666
10/4 = 2.5
10/3 = 3.3333
(10/2)/2 = 2.5

2) Increment-resolution sucks:

The millimeter is too small for day-to-day working-man's tape measure usage.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:19 pm
aidan wrote:
Chumly wrote:
Quote:
But for the Canadian government to criminalize the use of Imperial measurments.........then in 2005 to start teaching it in schools again because kids are getting all messed up, what kind of freak-show is that?


I must have missed this part of it- criminalize the use of a certain type of measurement? That seems a little over the top. I'm surprised- and I'm not being sarcastic- really surprised that what I've always taken to be kind of an easy-going, laid back sort of government like Canada's would make such an effort to standardize a system and people in a system to the point that they'd make it criminal to do something another way.

But there needn't have been any switch for the kids to get messed up with measurement. I've had kids in fourth and fifth grade - and I'm not talking learning disabled kids- I'm talking kids of normal intelligence and above- who don't know there are twelve inches in a foot. Even when I say, "Well, how many inches are there on a ruler?" they usually answer ten. And these are kids who have lived in America with our imperial measures their whole lives.
And one mom came to me and said that her twelve year old son did not know there were twelve months in a year, but it couldn't have been his fault - it was that he wasn't being taught that particular measurement.
I assured her, that at least somewhere in his seven years of schooling it had been taught- for instance, had he gone to kindergarten? Yes. Did they have circle time everyday in front of the calendar. Yes.
Does he know when his birthday is? Christmas? Summer vacation?
"Yes, of course he does", she answered.
There's a difference between someone having something taught to them and that person being willing to listen and learn it. Learning is not a passive activity.
And then I asked her if she had any calendars in her house. Yes.
Maybe she could sit down with him for twenty minutes and leaf through one.

What I'm saying is, don't take the active responsibility of learning away from these kids because of a mistake the government made. If these kids want to figure it out - most of them can- even if the schools and governement don't do their job correctly.

But again, being able to count the millimeters is another story. That's why I'm with you on the ruler and tape measure stuff.
A bit of history from Sept. 27, 1977 "The great Canadian metric debate" (if you like cultural claims with a bit of Canadian humor).

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-75-1572-10615/science_technology/metric_system/clip6
0 Replies
 
Quincy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:30 pm
When you're using a tape-measure to measure something I doubt you want it down to fractions of a millimetre anyhow- when would you need to divide a centimetre (or whatever) by ten?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 02:51 pm
The correct question, is not "when would you need to divide a centimeter"

The correct question is "when would you need an increment as small as a centimeter?"
Obvious answer: you do not need a visualized increment as small as a centimeter, as discussed there are a number of "tricks" to circumvent this apparent lack of accuracy! In fact the building trades rely on this "built-in play".

And further correct questions as discussed:

10/6 = ?
10/4 = ?
10/3 = ?
(10/2)/2 = ?

12/6 = ?
12/4 = ?
12/3 = ?
(12/2)/2 = ?

Now, I hope you do not need to ask how important the building trades are to Canadian Measuring Culture, nor how important speed and ease of use in a tape measure is to Canadian Measuring Culture!

The fact is, the "man in the field" knows things that cannot be learned in the "front office". I've been on both sides now.

Quincy, I'll leave you with some humors. It was a pleasure chatting with you, with you all in fact!

Joni Mitchell (Canadian naturally)

I've looked at life from both sides now
From win and lose and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 05:19 pm
I use a tape measure every day chum old son. Its just household stuff but i do. I was taught the imperial system at school and changed to metric in early high school.

I have no problems with the metric measurement system. It is much easier to use than imperial.

Forget centimeters. I just use millimeters and meters all the time. even for long lengths of timber, 2.45 meters > 2450 mm. Timber comes in standard lengths that match with the old imperial system, 1.8m 2.4m 3.6m.

The other problem with imperial is that there are in fact two systems English and US. I just cannott get my head round socket sizes in the old system. i want to undo a bolt and pick up the 5/8 socket... nope touch to small.. now whats the next size up ummm have to fraction up to /32 thats multiply the 16ths by ummm 4 yes. ok ok so now the top number * 4 = 20... easy so 20/32 ... now what is the next socket size after that ..... I still dont know what the next size is.

Metric I pick up a 12 mm socket. too small? try 13 mm, too small 14 mm.

I guess you must be right and all the tradies in OZ, south africa and Europe must be wrong.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 05:34 pm
wow, chumly, i'd no idea someone can get this passionate about measuring systems.

i'm accustomed to both, dividing my time between Europe and U.S., but prefer metric system by far.
0 Replies
 
margo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 05:48 pm
Some females may find the millimetre a handy unit of measure! Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 06:02 pm
Metric's by far easier.

Tradesfolk in central Canada don't find it a problem.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 06:30 pm
Say you work in a machine shop, as a quality control inspector. A certain piece of work has a dimensional tolerance of plus or minus 0.25%. You have to check 120 an hour. Which would you find easier to check, one with a nominal dimension of twelve and nine sixty-fourths of an inch, or one with a nominal dimension of 300 mm? I know which I'd prefer.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:54 pm
I haven't had time to read through all your responses yet, but I got my well explained answer from the very first post from Dadpad. I have to run again (my life is crazy at the moment), but I thank you all very very much for being there when I need you.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:57 pm
Bye now...

(wear yer snowshoes)

RH
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 08:38 pm
going to school and later to trade-school in germany , we had to be able to know metric as well as imperial measurements .
"length" measurements in imperial don't present much of a problem but the fun starts when you have to deal with square-feet , square yards ,
cubic yards , short and long tons ... ...

and there is even more fun when you are dealing with imperial gallons and american gallons Laughing

perhaps we should also have kept the imperial coinage system :
half-a-crown, crown , sovereign anyone :wink:
hbg

for some more fun see :
IMPERIAL MEASUREMENTS
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 07:56 am
Re: What is a Milimeter?
contrex wrote:
Montana wrote:
I look at a rular


It's a ruler, not a "rular".


So, you gonna follow me around and correct my spelling now?
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:25 am
Re: What is a Milimeter?
Montana wrote:
contrex wrote:
Montana wrote:
I look at a rular


It's a ruler, not a "rular".


So, you gonna follow me around and correct my spelling now?


Yup
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:33 am
I wouldn't expect any less from you.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Feb, 2008 07:34 pm
Chumly wrote:
The correct question, is not "when would you need to divide a centimeter"

The correct question is "when would you need an increment as small as a centimeter?"
Obvious answer: you do not need a visualized increment as small as a centimeter, as discussed there are a number of "tricks" to circumvent this apparent lack of accuracy! In fact the building trades rely on this "built-in play".


Electricians don't but carpenters often do, Chumly. We often deal in 16ths, and sometimes 32nds and 64ths.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 02:25 am
I do not believe I said 16ths were not of use in the building trades. Also as I touched on earlier there are ways to assess 16ths without actually needing to measure for them most times. But hey if you feel the need to measure for 16ths instead compensating for 16ths, have at 'er!

However, in wood frame residential, show me where you need 32nds and 64ths.

Also, in larger commercial projects and even more so in industrial and larger marine projects, carpentry becomes rather less common.

The better building trades people tend to gravitate to larger commercial projects, industrial and larger marine projects. That's where the higher skill sets are generally to be found, along with the better paying more demanding positions.

Now with finishing carpentry you can deal with such increments as 32nds and 64ths, but that aspect represents a small fraction of the total of the building trades, and sadly even there I have seen many carpenters using caulk in lieu of 32nds - 64ths precision.

This is a fun thread!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Feb, 2008 09:49 am
Chumly wrote:


The better building trades people tend to gravitate to larger commercial projects, industrial and larger marine projects. That's where the higher skill sets are generally to be found, along with the better paying more demanding positions.

Now with finishing carpentry you can deal with such increments as 32nds and 64ths, but that aspect represents a small fraction of the total of the building trades, and sadly even there I have seen many carpenters using caulk in lieu of 32nds - 64ths precision.



That's not finish carpentry, Chumly. What do electricians even need a tap e for? Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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