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Project Chanology: Anonymous vs. Scientology

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 07:02 pm
Have they found a differenct bible?
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 09:13 pm
You can't just point at Dianetics and call it Scientology any more than you can point at the bible and call it Christianity.
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maporsche
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 09:22 pm
fungotheclown wrote:
bible and call it Christianity.


Isn't that all you need to do?
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 09:33 pm
Nope. To do so ignores the history and traditions not found in the bible that influence and shape the beliefs of christians today.
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maporsche
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 09:36 pm
fungotheclown wrote:
Nope. To do so ignores the history and traditions not found in the bible that influence and shape the beliefs of christians today.


Examples?
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OCCOM BILL
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 10:46 pm
fungotheclown wrote:
You can't just point at Dianetics and call it Scientology any more than you can point at the bible and call it Christianity.
Huh? This is what you wrote, and what I am objecting to:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
fungotheclown wrote:
You can look into Islam without paying a fee. CoS will not allow you to even know what their basic beliefs are until you buy in. That's not a religion, that's a business.
This is utter nonsense. Anyone who read even the first chapter of Dianetics would know better. It is a how-to book, for crying out loud. Whether or not you wish to join a church or pay a tithe is unlikely to come up before one reads the damn book. Further; and I'll try my best to paraphrase L. Ron Hubbard from 2 decades ago; "the only way the printed word has any effect on you; is if you believe it".

I'm not much into burning books, myself.
What "basic beliefs" are you referring to, that aren't covered in Dianetics... and for that matter, how do you know about them?
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 10:57 pm
For examples, I'll just point to the Vatican in the case of Christianity. For scientology, I'd like to point out that dianetics is in fact a small subsect of scientology, and isn't even really that descriptive of their core beliefs. As far as my sources, there have been several leaked videos and documents explaining some of the more basic beliefs of the church. Or you could just go to wikipedia, that seems to work too.
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Diest TKO
 
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Reply Wed 6 Feb, 2008 11:02 pm
Independant of a first chapter being avalible for the public to read, you can understand why this would be a point of disscussion right OB?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that some of scientology is made public, which is in effect to say that Fungo is partially incorrect.

To me this still speaks to fungo's main theme: The church does not project itself in a transparent way.

I'm sure there is a lot of misconceptions out there about the "what and who" of scientology. However, it seems like when scientologists feel like these projections are incorrect, they are quick to blame everyone else as if it's their problem for misunderstanding the very little information that they choose to put out.

It seems clear that if this kind of projection or misunderstanding was a real problem for scientologists, they would be quick to share who they are and what they are... for free.

Otherwise, it just stinks of bussiness to me.

T
K
O
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OCCOM BILL
 
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Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2008 12:36 am
Okay. I've just read the exceedingly long entry in Wiki and learned a good deal about what's gone on with Scientology since I read Dianetics. For what it's worth; here's my summary:

Dianetics is a book that teaches people to help each other unlock painful memories; in belief that bringing them to the forefront of the conscious mind will release the power they have over them and help them to think more clearly. In theory, painful events cause subconscious conjoining of facts that are frequently incidental. Example: a child beaten unconscious while being yelled at may throughout his life develop headaches when people shout, because his brain recorded shouting=head pain during this incident. I have no trouble seeing this as possible, nor accepting that the realization that this is the case could result in a cessation of headaches caused by shouting. So, follow the procedures laid out in the book; and you can supposedly relieve each and every one of these illogical errors in thought process (and quite a few ill effects, that go with them) simply by making your conscious mind aware of them. When they're all gone; you are considered Clear. (Sounds pretty cool to me; but I wonder if you wouldn't become something of a robot if you had no inexplicable personality quirks.)

According to Wiki; this remains the bread and butter of the "religion". Scientology essentially took this practice and built a religion around it. The supposedly secret levels according to Wiki are about finding faulty memories from past lives and taking the process to new levels. Shocked I seriously doubt that L. Ron Hubbard believed such rubbish, and it would surprise me not at all if the "Church" was set up as a means to accumulate profit, while sharing what he considered valuable wisdom... and the thing just took on a life of it's own. Precisely how that differs from most other Church's; I honestly have no idea.

Also fungotheclown; I saw very little on Wiki that wasn't referenced in the version of Dianetics I read approximately 2 decades ago. Twas a newly re-released paperback at the time, with a wicked cool explosive cover. For the more fantastic of the beliefs described; I'm forced to wonder if some in the Church are really that kooky... or if the person editing Wiki just thinks so. Even most of that though, is no more fantastic than most religions if you really think about it. I do remember that L. Ron went to great length to separate what he knew to be fact, and what was merely his opinion until better facts were available, so I have trouble believing he would have gone completely bat-**** crazy in claiming fantastic things as fact. Just my opinion (until better facts are available :wink:).

Ps. I would be very interested to read what anyone who's actually gone through some Dianetic Auditing has to say about it (let alone a former CoS member).
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2008 01:01 pm
Here are the documents that Anonymous has gotten out of the church so far:

http://www.partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology/Documents

granted, this is a biased source, and by no means verified, so I don't proport that these are all valid; however, as a whole they seem internally consistent, which suggests at least some level of validity, and they paint a disturbing picture.

They also have a list of resources here:

http://www.partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology/Resources

which includes blogs and testimonials from former members. Peruse at your own leisure.
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cjhsa
 
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Reply Thu 7 Feb, 2008 03:45 pm
I seriously doubt P.T. Barnum would have been a Scientologist.

He might have bought the joint though.
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Diest TKO
 
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Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:25 pm
http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1202693247255.jpg
from the Feb 10th protest.

T
K
O
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 11:51 pm
Information about the protests today can be found here:

http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?p=27999

They are already planning another set on the Ides of March. Interesting.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Mon 11 Feb, 2008 05:33 pm
I just noticed this thread--thanks for starting it, Boss. I have been following this story on the radio news, and it is rather surreal. I like the idea of anybody who is twisting the scientologist dick.
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Diest TKO
 
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Reply Tue 12 Feb, 2008 02:19 am
Looks like the picture didn't work.

Here is a video of some media coverage of recent events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvPGFLJuGY0

What was most interesting to me is that all the anonomous that were interviewed were well spoken. Most anons on 4chan speak like 14 year old idiots with a horrible case teenage angst.

T
K
O
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littlek
 
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Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 06:06 pm
http://www.scientology.org/
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 07:34 pm
Ummm... ok.... that was the scientology website... found that just fine on my own... did you have something to say?
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littlek
 
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Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 08:28 pm
Sorry, I was in the middle of something.

It's my impression that the website was new. I assumed it was in response to what they consider persecution from groups like Anonymous. I could be wrong on all counts, I suppose.
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fungotheclown
 
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Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2008 11:47 pm
It looks like the group is planning another event on April 12th: Operation Reconnect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSSgwD-9PS4

I may be attending this. What do the rest of you think?
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