Iraqi Soldier Who Killed U.S. Troops is a Hero in Iraq

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Others gave IPS a similar account. "I was there when the American captain and his soldiers raided a neighborhood and started shouting at women to tell them where some men they wanted were," a resident of Mosul, speaking on condition of anonymity, told IPS on phone. "The women told them they did not know, and their men did not do anything wrong, and started crying in fear."

The witness said the U.S. captain began to shout at his soldiers and the women, and his men then started to grab the women and pull them by their hair.

"The soldier we knew later to be Kaissar shouted at the Americans, 'No, no,' but the captain shouted back at the Iraqi soldier," the witness told IPS. "Then the Iraqi soldier shouted, 'Let go of the women, you sons of bitches,' and started shooting at them." The soldier, he said, then ran off.

The Association of Muslim Scholars, a Sunni organization, issued a statement saying the Iraqi soldier had shot the U.S. soldiers after he saw them beat up a pregnant woman.

"His blood rose and he asked the occupying soldiers to stop beating the woman," they said in the statement. "Their answer through the translator was: 'We will do what we want.' So he opened fire on them."

The story was first reported on al-Rafidain satellite channel. That started Iraqis from all over the country talking about "the hero" who sacrificed his life for Iraqi honor.

American soldiers tasting their own medicine... bitter indeed!

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This could be a trend. Fully outfitted and trained Iraqis turned enemy.

How many of us would have done the same thing?

Insurgents in kevlar. Oh oh.

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Amigo wrote:

How many of us would have done the same thing?

If I saw, in my homeland, occupying soldiers dragging pregnant women by their hair, I'd waste the bastards. I'd cheer on anyone who did it, too.

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I would do it anywhere anytime.

I act on right and wrong on compulsion.

Race, religion, nationalism, ideologies. Those things for me are for the rest. I have no use for them.

If you are a maker of victims. I make you my victim.

Do unto them as they do unto others.

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You guys don't think it's a bit extreme to kill people for pulling hair?

He's no Hugh Thompson Jr. (the hero who stopped the Mai Lai massacre by threatening a superior officer with his guns), he's a murderer.

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Murder?

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Documented civilian deaths in Iraq from violence.

80,419 - 87,834

Relatively that makes no sense to me.

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Then you simply don't understand the concept of murder (as defined by any modern legal system on earth, where that would be considered murder).

The body count in Iraq has nothing at all to do with whether he is a murderer. It may speak volumes about the war, which I think was the worst thing the US did in my lifetime but it does not justify the man's actions in any way.

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I don't think justice or Judgment is something any of us can speak on. Except of course when it makes us feel like we are just while doing nothing for justice.

Our true policy is. Life is cheap and gas is expensive. We live it everyday. We just don't want to say it. But we will however say "that guy is a murderer!"

Because WE have a sence of justice, don't we. And the man shooting the man pulling the pregnant women out of their houses by there hair to do god knows what. Well, he is a murderer.

We are not like him. are we.

80,419 - 87,834

Who doesn't understand the concept of murder?

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Amigo wrote:

I don't think justice or Judgment is something any of us can speak on.

But you don't let that stop you as you judge "our" lifestyle so I won't let it stop me. Plus, I don't agree with you anyway. I think anyone who feels like it can speak of "justice" and "Judgment" all they want, some will merely make a lot more sense than others.

And as substantiation I posit these numbers: 80,419 - 87,834

Quote:

Except of course when it makes us feel like we are just while doing nothing for justice.

I'm not sure why you feel that way and am even less sure why you think it's relevant. He's still a murderer, regardless of what you feel about yourself.

But in case you want more substance: 80,419 - 87,834

Quote:

Our true policy is. Life is cheap and gas is expensive. We live it everyday.

Who is this "we" you refer to? "Our" policy? Is this like the royal we?

Or does the answer lie here: 80,419 - 87,834

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We just don't want to say it. But we will however say "that guy is a murderer!"

Actually, "we" apparently don't. I do, because I understand what murder is. You don't so "we" don't call him a murderer.

As can be evidenced by: 80,419 - 87,834

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Because WE have a sence of justice, don't we. And the man shooting the man pulling the pregnant women out of their houses by there hair to do god knows what. Well, he is a murderer.

Yes, he is a murderer. What you think about me and what my lifestyle is has nothing to do with that. I hope his attorney does a better job than this. Laughing

Because, 80,419 - 87,834.

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We are not like him. are we.

I don't think I'm even like you, so I'm not sure how "we" compare to him. All I know about him is that he lost his temper and murdered his colleagues.

Now I'd probably be pretty pissed if I saw what he reportedly saw as well, and I may not have had any more restraint than he did but he's still a murderer and I still don't think he's a "hero". Whether I would act any differently doesn't make it right nor does it make it any less an act of murder.

And if he were an insurgent fighting occupation I would not call him a murderer at all. But the fact of the matter is that he shot his colleagues over motivations that do not justify his homicide. He is a murderer, not a hero[1].

[1] - 80,419 - 87,834

Quote:

80,419 - 87,834

Who doesn't understand the concept of murder?

Uh, you? See, 80,419 - 87,834.

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Quote:

You guys don't think it's a bit extreme to kill people for pulling hair?

Absolutely it's extreme. Iraq is also in an extreme situation.

And the alleged 'facts' seem to be - the shooter was a citizen of the invaded country. And the shot soldier was an invader / occupier of the country he was shot in. And the shot invader was dragging a woman of the invaded country around by the hair.

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vikorr wrote:

Quote:
You guys don't think it's a bit extreme to kill people for pulling hair?

Absolutely it's extreme. Iraq is also in an extreme situation.

That's a really bad defense. The situation itself wasn't extreme enough to merit the extreme response. If you want to excuse all extreme moral wrongs due to the general "extreme" situation in Iraq then all the atrocity there is legitimate.

Vietnam was an extreme situation, and Mai Lai was an individually more "extreme" situation than pulling hair and US servicemen stopped the massacre without killing anyone. That's an example of heroism and courage to confront atrocity by those in your own ranks, this isn't.

Quote:

And the alleged 'facts' seem to be - the shooter was a citizen of the invaded country. And the shot soldier was an invader / occupier of the country he was shot in. And the shot invader was dragging a woman of the invaded country around by the hair.

That's only one half of the alleged "facts" the other half includes the allegations that the dragging women around is untrue altogether.

But even if I give the individual the benefit of the doubt and give him all the facts he claimed, the "occupation" argument has no merit. If the individual were an insurgent I'd not call it murder (though it would technically qualify given the current state of the Iraqi government) but this was a guy who voluntarily decided to fight alongside the occupiers and then lost his temper and turned on them.

Seriously guys, this is really far out there. You won't find someone more opposed to the war than I and I am not patriotic in the least (so you can't go put down my objection to your ethical issues to politics or nationalism) but you guys are justifying something wholly unjustifiable and the unjustness of the invasion and the subsequent antipathy for the invaders shouldn't let your moral compass stray that far.

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Robert Gentel, You are right. I am wrong. My attitude perpetuates violence.

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Damn... I just decided for the umpteenth time that I should not be wasting my time arguing on the internet and there you go and say something like that. ;-)

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You won't find to many people that do that. Maybe next time you will be wrong and we will be even.

I will however use a gun to protect innocent people in an emergency situation against violent attack.

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Robert,

You mistake what I think of the situation in Iraq :

Any Iraqi has every right to shoot any invading soldier.

Same goes for any invaded country - their citizens have the right to shoot any invading soldier.

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Ahhh crap, I can't argue with that either.

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Amigo wrote:

Ahhh crap, I can't argue with that either.

Well, you could try by noting that the fella who killed the US soldier (s?) was, in fact, working with them as an ally.

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dlowan wrote:

Amigo wrote:
Ahhh crap, I can't argue with that either.

Well, you could try by noting that the fella who killed the US soldier (s?) was, in fact, working with them as an ally.

Did you read the article??

If you sign up for a police force to protect and serve the smurfs and on the first day out your new allies started kicking the $hit out of them and dragging them around by the hair.

What would you do? Think it was some kind of new radical protection technique.

Ok, they are allys. Allys in what?

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Amigo wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Amigo wrote:
Ahhh crap, I can't argue with that either.

Well, you could try by noting that the fella who killed the US soldier (s?) was, in fact, working with them as an ally.

Did you read the article??

If you sign up for a police force to protect and serve the smurfs and on the first day out your new allies started kicking the $hit out of them and dragging them around by the hair.

What would you do? Think it was some kind of new radical protection technique.

Ok, they are allys. Allys in what?

I guess this is just an agree to disagree one.

I do not think death is a proper sentence for assault.

As for allies....they were working together on a patrol as I understand it...presumably looking to do something about the people who are blowing up both Iraquis and American soldiers? Though, they do seem to be making a bigger dent in their fellow Iraquis than in the occupiers.

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Iraqi Soldier Who Killed U.S. Troops is a Hero in Iraq

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