Aye, the self is that. But it cannot do that without relating to an environment. The environment is a vital part in the forming of a self, the sustaining of a self, and in deciding the contents and reactions of a self.
I am not saying that self is an invalid concept that has no use. Plainly it has it's uses, but the "apartness" the self feels from it's surroundings, the feeling which results in us thinking we are separate entities, isn't very accurate.
And you cannot be aware of a rock without it taking up some space within the thing you refer to as your "self". It has a presence in your awareness, and as such, you are not aware alone.
Without stone, no concept of it, and no concept of it means no awareness of it.
That doesn't mean that the stone is aware of you. It simply means that the stone is your awareness.
Without the concept "stone" the lump on the ground would be indistinguishable from what it lays on, and would have no existence.
real life wrote:Cyracuz wrote:To a dog a computer wouldn't exist. It would just be another meaningless object indistinguishable from all other meaningless objects.
The existence of any given thing comes from what that thing means to us. If you have no concept of something, then to you, the thing you have no concept of does not exist.
What nonsense.
So if you are driving along at night and have no concept that a concrete truck is stalled just ahead of you around the curve, then it doesn't exist?
The existence of something is not dependent on our awareness of it; what it may or may not mean to us; or any interaction (relationship) we may or may not have had with it.
The concrete truck doesn't 'come into existence' the moment you collide with it. It was there already.
btw I see you've changed your sig. The other was rather embarrassing , wasn't it?
according to some studies of quantum physics, no the object would not exist before it is perceived. (see superposition)
Cyracuz wrote:To a dog a computer wouldn't exist. It would just be another meaningless object indistinguishable from all other meaningless objects.
The existence of any given thing comes from what that thing means to us. If you have no concept of something, then to you, the thing you have no concept of does not exist.
in order to clarify what cyracuz means:
the only item of reality we have mental contact with are concepts
ergo ipso facto, no "thing" is provable beyond its existence as a concept. "does a virus exist when not in plain sight?" according to our concept (which is our mental map for what is probable to occur) yes it does. It exists as a vector within the latticework of conceptual reality; but as much as people do not like to hear this: nothing has an absolute reality, anything we encounter are interpretations. Everything you know is fallible, therefore every concept you own up to is potentially obsolete and inaccurate.
Well referenced Real Eyes.
An alternative version of superposition is that "the object exists in all possible states prior to observation". Hence this alternative allows for an "external reality" albeit a diffuse one. The alternative nondualistic viewpoint takes "existence" to be predicated on interaction between observer and observed. The empirical result is the same even though the concept of "external reality" is no longer a requisite (water wings have been removed for those brave enough to handle it),
Re: A better question that: "Does god exist"
Cyracuz wrote:Do you exist? Prove it.
If you exist, then you must be clearly distinguishable from the environment you exist in, isn't that right? If not, we would have to say that you exist, but we cannot find you anywhere. But how can we know you exist if we cannot find you.
So in order to say that you exist you must prove that you are separate from everything else...
The concept of self and the concept of god are equal in that they are both beliefs.
According to non-dualist philosophy I do not exist as a separate self. The sense of being a separate self is a delusion that occurs because of the tendency to identify with thought. I mistake the thought of self as my true identity. Self implies something that is stable, non-changing, that exists throughout life. However, the body, thoughts, beliefs, personality, memories, etc. -- everything that I identify as "me" -- changes. What is it that remains constant? Nothing, except for the silent awareness that is alive in the core of my being. That silent awareness is unchanging. I can know that I exist, but you cannot know that I exist. I could be an imaginary figure projected by your mind, for all you know. You could be a brain in a laboratory being stimulated with electrodes such that you think that you are reading my words, but it could be an illusion. There is nothing that I could do to prove to you that I exist.
IFeelFree
Precisely.
I am thinking that I cannot say that "I exist" without resorting to at least one assumption; the assumption that "I" is indeed a viable concept, in this context.
The best I can do is to state: "Existence". To say anything more about it that that there is existance, is a matter of subjective preference or interpretation, not directly realted to "the real world", if there is such a thing...
:wink:
Good one rl.
See here, mr Arbuckle cannot really say that he was kicked. He felt a blow, but it could have been anything.
So to him, the blow exists, but that is was caused by a kick is an assumption, because he didn't see it..
Cyracuz wrote:Good one rl.
See here, mr Arbuckle cannot really say that he was kicked. He felt a blow, but it could have been anything.
So to him, the blow exists, but that is was caused by a kick is an assumption, because he didn't see it..
umm... no. The fact of the matter is the action was perceived, therefore is real. Sight can be equally falsified.
Dear God who allows Long suffering for those who don't want it (in other words stupid people that are duped by a Higher Intelligence) like me! into being raped, beaten, mentally, emotionally and physically tortured for the GOOD! of the community and world peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,,,.
It is i Jovana~,,, i no longer want to be your or your budddies sex molestation puppet/guinea pig,,, would you teach your buddies that they only need you and can live without me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May people that are driven insane on a constant basis Rest in Peace forever,,,,,,,Amen.
Jovana wrote:Dear God who allows Long suffering for those who don't want it ( that are duped by a Higher Intelligence) like me! into being raped, beaten, mentally, emotionally and physically tortured for the GOOD! of the community and world peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,,,???????????????
It is i Jovana~,,, i no longer want to be your or your budddies sex molestation puppet/guinea pig,,, would you teach your buddies that they only need you and can live without me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rip forever for rape victims,,, dear god you have performed many miracles through me who is/was Paula Jean Gilbert Yannalfo,,, ~
such as ,,, i have been molested and humiliated for you because YOU YAWAY ALLOW IT! (are you entertained yet JAYEY?!? and convince me that it is a good idea so much that i don't mind getting my face bashed in on t.v. and in public and in private homes,,, so,
God speaking,,, ~
for the good of the human race,,, but there going to forget again,,, so i'm The Lord Thy God,,,
am going to let you pjgy the so called loved child of mine be molested beyond belief repeatedly and that's basically what you are good for(obviously) how do you like being mind body and emotionally screwed forever Thanks To Me The Lord Thy God!.
going to allow you pjgy to be molested and tortured so much that i and my sexually correct buddies can make you so sexually retarded for our pleasure that you remain a weak, stupid, frail idiot who is going to be gang raped and made to like it but feel unclean,,, even though i The Lord Thy God Publically declared that your vagina was "Holy",,,
God sure does work in mysterious way's ,,, dosen't he Jesus.sexually mentally emotionally ruined no matter what you beg for or do,,,,,,,THATS QUITE A MIRACLE, and God let's it happen all the time again and again and again,,, God is so cruel he won't let anything completly die.
Amen.
May people that are driven insane on a constant basis Rest in Peace forever,,,,,,,Amen.
To bad it isn't going to work,,,
~ Dear God will you please make (if i have to live) me not be sexually turned on by anything ever again,,, thank you amen.
Dear God,,, who is Omnipotent Omniscient and Omniessent.
Amen.http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sistine/4d1-God.jpg
Rest in Peace forever,,,,,,,Amen.
~GoD Bless All and everything that is and isn't.
Amen.
