If John were the author of Revelation, and that were the same John as he alleged to have been a companion of the putative Christ, there would be little reason to assume that he wrote in Greek--and therefore good reason to doubt the etymology you are using. If it were not that John, then the authority of the text is cast into doubt.
But the point, which you assiduously avoid whenever it is brought up, is that such conclusions are only reached by an idiosyncratic interpretation, and not on the direct evidence of the text. You provide a sterling example when you allege that white is associated with righteousness, and then immediately conflate that righteousness with authority. You have to indulge some hilarious mental gymnastics to make your point--what you allege is patently not what the text says. Nowhere in Revelation is it explicitly stated that your boy Jeebus is riding the white horse.
This is why scripture is an unreliable crock of sh*t.
neologist wrote:The fact that the first horse is white is of significance in light of the association between the color white and righteousness. The only one autohorized to give authority would be God.
If the plan is for the Antichrist to reign and mislead during the pre-trib or tribulation period, whichever you believe, then yes, he would enter on a white horse as part of the deception and YES he would be given that the authority to reign by God. That's the plan according to Revelations.
(If God is the only one that can give authority, we can stop having elections, right?)
The entire world has been under the control of Satan and his organization since Eden. It was an authority he usurped; it was not granted.
Statement from authority.
No authority for the statement was adduced.
Do you allege, Neo, that you are white, and therefore righteous, and therefore an authority?
God is all powerful. How could Satan usurp power from God?
God had to have allowed Satan to rule. God always chooses to whom to give authority / leadership over us. Satan could not usurp without God allowing it, any more than Gore could have usurped power from the Supreme Court.
God chooses everything, including who is on the white horse.
Setanta wrote:Statement from authority.
No authority for the statement was adduced.
Do you allege, Neo, that you are white, and therefore righteous, and therefore an authority?
Sort of a flabby skin color, far from righteous, but willing to cite the authority.
(Revelation 4:4; 7:9; 19:11, 14; 20:11)
squinney wrote:
God is all powerful. How could Satan usurp power from God?
God had to have allowed Satan to rule. God always chooses to whom to give authority / leadership over us. Satan could not usurp without God allowing it, any more than Gore could have usurped power from the Supreme Court.
God chooses everything, including who is on the white horse.
This is one of the fundamental differences between us. I actually believe in something called free will. When given to us by God, it was no doubt with the understanding that it could be misused. But that does not mean God does not have the power to undo the effects of rebellion.
Ain't expecting you to believe it. Just pointing out the difference.
neologist wrote:A reading would no doubt be necessary. But the main theme of Revelation is an account of how Jesus, as God's agent, fulfills the prophecy of Daniel 2:44.
It is said that many will be unhappy about the way that works out.
I think that "many" might refer to the "moral majority" who wait for rapture.
*chuckle*
T
K
O
None of the verses you cited, Neo, constitute authority for the contention that the entire world has been under the control of "Satan" and his organization since the time of Eden.
In the King James version:
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Neither do any of those verses authorize a contention that "Satan" usurped an authority which he was not granted.
Try to pay attention, and to follow the discussion as it unfolds.
Here is the original text:
http://ba.21.free.fr/ntgf/apocalypse/apocalypse_6_gf.html
[quote...............(sorry script not supported, look up link)......quote]
In order of appearance the horses were white, red, black, and "pale" (or "ghostly"). In the original χλωρός (chloros, as in related word chlorine, wan, pale, washed-out).
What is this nonsense about any of the riders being the devil? I checked all the way back to Augustine and none of the eminent theologians support such a notion.
But Augustine - across the chasm of the centuries that separate us, more than the centuries separating him from the apostle John - somehow cheered me up with one of his observations: to the oft-asked question (in his day, presumably) "what was God doing before the Creation?" the only answer given is "He was preparing Hells for those daring to ask such questions!"
Keep that in mind, Neo, and Merry Christmas.
Setanta wrote:None of the verses you cited, Neo, constitute authority for the contention that the entire world has been under the control of "Satan" and his organization since the time of Eden.
In the King James version:
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Neither do any of those verses authorize a contention that "Satan" usurped an authority which he was not granted.
Try to pay attention, and to follow the discussion as it unfolds.
Of course, O master of fuzzy ones. I was citing a few scriptures relating to the color white as representing righteousness. Did you want some citations showing that Satan is the ruler of this world?
If a dumb yokel like me would not consign even the worst of us to hell, why would God need to do so?
And I serve scones with the coffee, too.
neologist wrote:Of course, O master of fuzzy ones. I was citing a few scriptures relating to the color white as representing righteousness. Did you want some citations showing that Satan is the ruler of this world?
Listen, Pinnacle of the Brain-dead Unquestioning Believers, you wrote:
neologist wrote:The entire world has been under the control of Satan and his organization since Eden. It was an authority he usurped; it was not granted.
Therefore, in the immediately succeeding post, i wrote:
Setanta wrote:Statement from authority.
No authority for the statement was adduced.
Do you allege, Neo, that you are white, and therefore righteous, and therefore an authority?
To which you responded as follows:
neologist wrote:Setanta wrote:Statement from authority.
No authority for the statement was adduced.
Do you allege, Neo, that you are white, and therefore righteous, and therefore an authority?
Sort of a flabby skin color, far from righteous, but willing to cite the authority.
(Revelation 4:4; 7:9; 19:11, 14; 20:11)
It is no fault of mine if you cannot follow the sense of a set of consecutive posts, and respond appropriately.
So, Oh Thou Greatest of Great Braying Jackasses, don't make any snotty remarks to me about "fuzziness" when you are, apparently, incapable of coherently responding in consecutive posts.
So sorry, O monarch of the mongrels. It was your use of the words white and righteous that threw me off.
But you are white and righteous, no?
Correction to post on previous page: Augustine did not make the comment erroneously attributed to him. He believed, instead, that "time" has no meaning before the Creation.
A very modern concept, space-time, discovered by a theologian, not a cosmologist - I'm impressed.
Neologist - your interpretation of Revelation is unique to yourself. Btw, are you able to read the original text on the link I posted previously?
http://ba.21.free.fr/ntgf/apocalypse/apocalypse_6_gf.html
If not, what is the text on which you base your idea?
