ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA

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In my professional work I meet quite a number of New Zealanders and am astounded to find that about 95% of them are unaware of their actual immigration status. Many of them think that after they have been here for four years they automatically qualify for Australian Citizenship. NOT SO !

The Immigration Act ( with a few exceptions ) allows New Zealanders to come into Australia and immediately they arrive they are granted what is known as ' TEMPORARY VISA' holders. If they are 45 or over then they are extremely unlikely ever to obtain, firstly, a PERMANENT VISA, which is pre-requisite to their obtaining Australian Citizenship.
This means that virtually all Kiwis over 45, unless they have very special qualifications will never become Australian Citizens, never have the right to vote in either Local Body, or General Elections, although ( understandably ) pay taxes similar to everyone else. This reciprocal agreement, between P.M. Helen Clark in New Zealand and John Howard came into force in 2001.
Virtually all New Zealanders aged over 45 moving to Australia and immediately starting work seem unaware of the Immigration Status afforded them, viz TEMPORARY VISA holder and it is not until they apply for Citizenship that they are told of their real position.
This is is deplorable. It smacks of discrimination and unfairness. Many people of whatever nationality are in the prime of their lives, even after age 45, i.e. Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers... I have taken this up with the previous Minster For Immigration but he appeared totally disinterested. I think all New Zealanders over age 45 should look up the appropriate website....www.immi.gov.au and have a look at form
1126i....they may be in for a big surprise. Is this the " Fair Go" that we Australians fondly believe exists.... I think not !

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bookmarking

(& hoping for a bit more enlightenment on this arrangement between NZ & Oz. ... And why so many New Zealanders are leaving home.)

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If they are 45 or over then they are extremely unlikely ever to obtain, firstly, a PERMANENT VISA, which is pre-requisite to their obtaining Australian Citizenship.

What makes you say that?

does it really matter?

If a NewZealand citizen over 45 comes to Oz they get a temp visa and retain their temp visa until the choose to leave. They dont have to leave at all if they choose not to do so. I kind thought it was like an open border situation.

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ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA
Hi Dadpad,

Nice to hear from you. In answer to your query, " Does it really matter ?" it really rests with the individual and his / her circumstances. I feel that if I were a New Zealander having made a commitment to staying here for the rest of my life and wanting to become involved ( as all immigrants should ) in civic matters, voting at Local Body & General Elections etc then the Government should allow this. As it stands, ( With one or two exceptions ) a New Zealander aged 45 or over is automatically regarded as being a Temporary Visa Holder, but other than highly exceptional reasons they will not receive a Permanent Visa entitling them to apply for Australian Citizenship. As already mentioned, if you go on line to the appropriate website www.immi.gov.au. and look up ' FORMS' and read form
1126i you will see for yourself. I really do think the Howard Government should have come clean on this issue. They either want New Zealanders to become FULLY involved as Australians or not... If I were a New Zealander, over 45, wanting to stay here for the rest of my life I would certainly prefer to be able to show my commitment by becoming an Australian Citizen rather than a form of tokenism by being granted a TEMPORARY VISA. You would no doubt have noticed that for at least three months prior to the recent General Election that John Howard was EXHORTING certain people to become Australian Citizens.....So what is wrong with those New Zealanders aged over 45... I am most surprised that bona fide New Zealand " Temporary Visa" holders haven't cottoned on to this anomaly.. Or... they simply dont know about it...
Good talking with you.... Wattsie

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ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA
Hi Msloga,

Thanks for your interest in my comments. I have written at some length to a contributor called ' Dadpad' and trust that you will find my further
dissertation on the subject of interest. I am not a New Zealander but have the greatest of respect for them as a race of people. Those that I have met over the years have assimilated very quickly in Australia and usually love Australia. I feel confident that there is some underlying reason for the John Howard Government, in 2001 changing the legislation to make it extremely difficult for New Zealanders aged over 45 to first obtain a Permanent Visa thus qualifying them for Citizenship later ( 4 Years )
I would most certainly not wish to live in any country where I was virtually regarded a temporary resident regardless of how long I lived in that Country.... I would certainly feel somewhat akin to being a second class citizen at not being able to become involved in Local Body Affairs, denied a vote in any form of Elections....Or... for that matter denied employment in any organization which requires Australian Citizenship..... I rest my case... Wattsie

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Interesting! Bookmarking.

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I guess on the plus side, New Zealanders, unlike any other nationality, can get a temporary visa very easily. And if NZ treats Oz expats the same way why aren't you railing against Helen Clark?

I'm kind of curious whether the Oz/NZ stuff is markedly different from Oz rules with other countries. I'm ignorant but it sounds like it's actually preferential.

I'm guessing that the rationale was partly that after age 45 your 'contribution' to social services via taxation will be twenty years tops and and in a maximum two decades you may well become a net user of social services. I'm curious whether you'd feel the same about a 60 year old getting a permanent visa.

I have no strong opinions on the matter (the sooner there are no countries the better for mine), but I am curious why you are so passionate about it. Would you be as strident about the citizenship rights of say, a 20 year old Sudanese assylum seeker?

I'm not arguing against your point but it seems to me that you are taking it very personally and my curious nature makes me want to know why, of all the injustices perpetrated by humanity on humanity this one raises your ire.

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I was giving this some thought and wondered if the reciprocal (or unreciprical) nature of our aged pension system and New Zealands has something to do with it.

I think New Zealanders living in Aust can claim the pension from New Zealand. Where they have paid the majority of their tax.

There may be a case of inequity. ie get close to pension age and move to OZ because the OZ pension is higher.

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I knew there was a $ sign there somewhere!

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hingehead wrote:

I guess on the plus side, New Zealanders, unlike any other nationality, can get a temporary visa very easily. And if NZ treats Oz expats the same way why aren't you railing against Helen Clark?

Thanks for your reply ' Hingehead'..... In your reply, and ' inter alia' you ask" if I would be equally as passionate about a 20 old Sudanese Asylum Seeker"..... I most certainly would !

There is no hidden agenda, or dubious motive in all of this Hingehead. I am merely the sort of bloke who dislikes different kind of injustices.. No matter what their nationality...

When looking at the picture you have on your site, ( The poor child terribly burned in Vietnam ) it tells me that, like myself you are a caring person otherwise you would not have submitted it.

As a person aged almost 80 I have only a few years to go and in my own small way do whatever I can to help anyone who suffers at the hands of an uncaring form of bureacracy..

I find it most strange that my motives appear to be questionable, and, in a subsequent piece of correspondence someone even suggests " I knew there would be a dollar in it somewhere"... How puerile !

If anyone is REALLY interested in dollars being made at the expense of innocents.... Have a really good think about why,and what we are doing in Iraq... Don't forget that as in Vietnam and now Iraq.... WE are the the invaders and how many more innocent civilians OF ALL AGES are getting terribly injured.... Hope this gives you some idea of the sort of person I am.... Wattsie

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Montana's comment was not aimed at you wattie or your motives for introducing this NZ topic.

Her comment was an observation on my post about the equity of reciprocal pension arrangements.

When you think about it there is good financial sense in the no citizenship arrangements for NZ ers over 45.

Whether it is equitable with our rules for other nationals is a story in itself.
eg. through a family ties program mum and dad vietnamese are allowed to join their son in OZ. Can they claim a pension at age 55? I'm not sure, but the answer is probably yes, Based on the fact that son will pay enough tax to make this arrangement financially viable for Australia.

let us now examine the NZ couple who come to Australia at age 46. They ahve paid tax all their working life in NZ and as long as they remain NZ citizens will be able to claim an NZ pension.

It seems pretty equitable to me.

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wattie, Dadpad is right. My comment was directed at his post. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

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The Immigration Act was changed mostly in response to a problem created in Australia by New Zealands Immigration Act.

That is, NZ allows pacific islanders to claim NZ Citizenship pretty much immediately. Australia (used to unconditionally) allow NZ Citizens to live in Australia and claim welfare.

Pacific Islanders were going to NZ, getting their citizenship, then coming to Australia and living on welfare. The numbers were fairly significant.

I wasn't aware of pension issues, but it wouldn't surprise me.

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ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA
My thanks to all who responded to my comments regarding this topic. It is perhaps unfortunate that I am unable to cite the actual circumstances that precipitated my writing to the press and this website otherwise it may identify the people concerned. I am statutorily obliged to do nothing that may identify them.

As a matter of interest however,and in contrast to what many Australians fondly imagine, viz " Friendly Nation" etc I have only received ONE sympathetic response ..

What has emerged from the correspondence though, is the bulk of respondents have clearly not taken the trouble to have a look at Form1126i on the Immigration website before replying... Which is a pity.

Had they done this, rather than quickly jumping on the computer and revealing their true bias I would have felt a lot happier... However, on the positive side,I hope a few Kiwis age over 45 will have read this and ' Look before they leap'....

When analyzing the many responses received in the press ( mainly offensive ) and the rather unsympathetic comments on this website, I am afraid that the topic heading , " ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA" it seems that in the majority of responses the answer is clearly....NO!

Thanks for your responses. I respect all of your views and the matter is now closed.

A Merry Christmas To You All. ( The poor old couple well into their eighties,( whom I am represent,) and whose son will now have to return to N.Z. will certainly not be sharing our festive spirit..

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Thank you Wattsie for letting us know why you were so passionate about this issue. We're a cautious bunch and we like to know what motivates people. Clearly your friends are the unintended victims of broad sweep legislation (as described by Vikorr). It is easy for us to be detached when it doesn't affect us.

All the best for you and yours and I hope to see you around on A2K.

On a side note NZ is denying a 33 year old woman the right to emigrate and join her husband there because she is too fat:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2213843,00.html

One day people/labour will be able to move as freely as capital. Maybe not.

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ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA
Thanks for your kind comments hingehead. I also would like to extend my sincere aplogies to Montana as it appears that I may have misunderstood her.

Thanks for the weblink regarding N.Z. Govt refusing access to those both OVER ( and under ) certain Body Mass.... What a sick world we live in.

As you may have gathered, I have very strong views on politicians and Governments whittling away our rights and privileges and believe it is encumbent on all of us to to be constantly vigilant.

An instance of what I am talking about is that on the 6 January 2006 Howard Government almost overnight introduced legislation ( Suicide Related Material Offences Act ) preventing people discussing methods of euthanasia over the telephone, email, fax, etc. The fine for such activities being absolutely horrific. AND WE THINK THIS IS A COUNTRY OF FREE SPEECH ! I wonder also how many people are under the wrongful impression that we do not have a Bill Of Human Rights.

Whether one believes in VOLUNTARY euthanasia or not, the principal is that to enact such legislation to prevent people discussing such matters per telephone, fax, or email means eavesdropping and phone tapping to obtain evidence. This form of activity is, to my mind totally obnoxious and reminiscent of the form of behaviours used in WW2 which I distinctly recall, served in, and suffered.

It is with experiences such as this, ' Hingehead " that I do become passionate about certain things because, to be quite honest, I dont like some of the things I see in terms of officialdom... I am sure that you will have heard the maxim, " Power Corrupts and More Power Corrupts Absolutely " ( something like that )...

Good talking to you Hingehead... Nils bastardium carborundum est !

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Whether one believes in VOLUNTARY euthanasia or not.

This topic has always made me curious. From what I know, somewhere between 70-90% of people are in favour of euthanasia (I'm trying to be conservative with the 70% - I've heard many people talk about it when the subject arises in newspapers, and almost every last one of them is in favour of euthanasia).

It's got me boggled how democratic governments a dead set against it.

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just wondering, where does the 45 figure come from? Is it actually specifically mentioned in any document, whether it be a piece of legislation or regulation to the implementing institutions? Or is it just an unofficial practice?

Sorry if it was explained already and I missed it.

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Wattsie, no apology needed. Sometimes I forget to look before I leap Embarrassed

I agree with you in everything you're saying and it truly scares the heck out of me to see our freedom dwindling away. It's not good, by any means!

Good wishes and Happy Holidays to you and yours :-)

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well I think your full of it wattie.

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ARE MIDDLE AGED NEW ZEALANDERS REALLY WANTED IN AUSTRALIA

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