1
   

Illegal abroad, hate websites thrive in USA

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2007 02:22 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
dlowan wrote:
dagmaraka wrote:
Rolling Eyes

...anyway, back to Walter's original post: back in 1999 I was working for a human rights group in Slovakia. Big part of my job was developping projects to combat racism, thus also working with police. I have myself surveyed many neonazi websites. Some incited violence directly, some indirectly. Police was helpless, none of the servers were hosted domestically. It is a major problem, since these websites are a major organizing point for the youth with shaved heads. And I stood face to face with the shaved head youths many times, having Roma or African people behind me. No fun. No fun at all. In fact, it's often a matter of life and death.



Whoa!!!! That's scary. I've done that on a way less scary and smaller way here. And even our local pathetic losers are scary en masse.


Are some of the sites hosted in the US, Dagmaraka?


Is it your view that they ought to be shut down?


I cannot claim to know how it is now, this was some 8 years ago, but back then, yes, most werer hosted in the U.S.
And yes, I do think that any website that openly promotes racism and violence should be shut. But I also know that it's difficult to monitor and police. I think it really should be the responsibility of the domain providers to make sure the sites on their servers are in compliance with laws... or perhaps it is, dunno.



I had thought that the US leaned more on the free speech side, and hence the sites were not illegal there?????
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2007 02:25 pm
dlowan wrote:
I had thought that the US leaned more on the free speech side, and hence the sites were not illegal there?????


Right, what someone hosting their site said (from the quote):
"No other country has a 1st Amendment"
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Nov, 2007 02:35 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I had thought that the US leaned more on the free speech side, and hence the sites were not illegal there?????


Right, what someone hosting their site said (from the quote):
"No other country has a 1st Amendment"




Are they legally allowed to incite violence, does anyone know?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:31 am
Freedom of Speech

What are its limits?

This is (or should be) the substance of the discussion.

Generally it depends upon whether you advance the interest of the individual or the group (A most common theme when the Left debates the Right).

If we want to allow each and every pervert the abililty to spread his or her perverse thinking along the communicative media of our society --- so be it, but then we should accept this Left Wing thinking and we need to come to grips with (and take responsiblity for) perverse actions that our society generally classifies as crimes.

Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie.

If you think this is absurd, let's get together in 10 or 15 years, and I bet my dystopia trumps your utopia.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:45 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Freedom of Speech

What are its limits?

This is (or should be) the substance of the discussion.

Generally it depends upon whether you advance the interest of the individual or the group (A most common theme when the Left debates the Right).

If we want to allow each and every pervert the abililty to spread his or her perverse thinking along the communicative media of our society --- so be it, but then we should accept this Left Wing thinking and we need to come to grips with (and take responsiblity for) perverse actions that our society generally classifies as crimes.

Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie.

If you think this is absurd, let's get together in 10 or 15 years, and I bet my dystopia trumps your utopia.



I'm not so educated in other constitutions - and especially not in other constitutional law - than in ours.

So I'm just and only reflected here to the German Basic Law and its interpretation (as generally accepted and ruled by the Federal Constitutional Court).

Germany is generally more wary of free speech than the US.
Article 5 of Germany's Basic Law, enshrines the right of freedom of speech and of the press.

"Everyone has the right to freely express and disseminate their opinions orally, in writing or visually and to obtain information from generally accessible sources without hindrance," states paragraph one of the law. "Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting through audiovisual media shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship."

But the next paragraph puts certain limits on that freedom, which were deemed necessary when the Basic Law was proclaimed in 1949, just four years after the end of World War II and the downfall of the Nazi dictatorship.

"These rights are subject to limitations embodied in the provisions of general legislation, statutory provisions for the protection of young persons and the citizen's right to personal respect," reads the second paragraph."

And since our penal law code says Holocaust denial is a punishable offense, that ban limits press freedom and overrides the right to free expression.

(I know that e.g. France, Italy and Austria have similar statutes on the books.)
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:55 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Freedom of Speech

What are its limits?

This is (or should be) the substance of the discussion.

Generally it depends upon whether you advance the interest of the individual or the group (A most common theme when the Left debates the Right).

If we want to allow each and every pervert the abililty to spread his or her perverse thinking along the communicative media of our society --- so be it, but then we should accept this Left Wing thinking and we need to come to grips with (and take responsiblity for) perverse actions that our society generally classifies as crimes.

Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie.

If you think this is absurd, let's get together in 10 or 15 years, and I bet my dystopia trumps your utopia.



I'm not so educated in other constitutions - and especially not in other constitutional law - than in ours.

So I'm just and only reflected here to the German Basic Law and its interpretation (as generally accepted and ruled by the Federal Constitutional Court).

Germany is generally more wary of free speech than the US.
Article 5 of Germany's Basic Law, enshrines the right of freedom of speech and of the press.

"Everyone has the right to freely express and disseminate their opinions orally, in writing or visually and to obtain information from generally accessible sources without hindrance," states paragraph one of the law. "Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting through audiovisual media shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship."

But the next paragraph puts certain limits on that freedom, which were deemed necessary when the Basic Law was proclaimed in 1949, just four years after the end of World War II and the downfall of the Nazi dictatorship.

"These rights are subject to limitations embodied in the provisions of general legislation, statutory provisions for the protection of young persons and the citizen's right to personal respect," reads the second paragraph."

And since our penal law code says Holocaust denial is a punishable offense, that ban limits press freedom and overrides the right to free expression.

(I know that e.g. France, Italy and Austria have similar statutes on the books.)


Walter

Should anal retentive be hyphenated?

Finn Agonistes
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 12:57 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Walter

Should anal retentive be hyphenated?

Finn Agonistes


You mean exactly what by that?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:03 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Walter

Should anal retentive be hyphenated?

Finn Agonistes


You mean exactly what by that?


That you are anal retentive.

That you inevitably get lost in the silly ass weeds.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 01:09 am
You asked in a thread that I started what the limits of free speech.

I tried to give an answer re the German legal perspective.

Thanks for your qualifying response to my response.


Eh, you studied German Constitutional Law where, you said?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 02:03 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Freedom of Speech

What are its limits?

This is (or should be) the substance of the discussion.

Generally it depends upon whether you advance the interest of the individual or the group (A most common theme when the Left debates the Right).

If we want to allow each and every pervert the abililty to spread his or her perverse thinking along the communicative media of our society --- so be it, but then we should accept this Left Wing thinking and we need to come to grips with (and take responsiblity for) perverse actions that our society generally classifies as crimes.

Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie.

If you think this is absurd, let's get together in 10 or 15 years, and I bet my dystopia trumps your utopia.



That's...imterestimg.


Usually..I..see...the..right..here..delievimg..it..is..protectimg..imdvidual..
freedoms..amd..freedom..of..speech..from..the..horrors..of..political
correctess..amd..other..examples..of..the..awful..group..thimk..from..the..left.


Mote..it..is..the..masty..Europeam..socialists..ad..welfare.state..propomemts..
which..cemsor..these..sites..ad..the..decemt..godly..USA..which..allows..them.




Please..give..examples..of..we..Progressive..Liderals..supportimg..child..sexual..aduse,
y..the..way.




(Sorry..re..type..keydoard..kaput)
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Dec, 2007 09:19 pm
You come through loud and clear, dlowan.

Good Qs
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Dec, 2007 01:12 am
dlowan wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Freedom of Speech

What are its limits?

This is (or should be) the substance of the discussion.

Generally it depends upon whether you advance the interest of the individual or the group (A most common theme when the Left debates the Right).

If we want to allow each and every pervert the abililty to spread his or her perverse thinking along the communicative media of our society --- so be it, but then we should accept this Left Wing thinking and we need to come to grips with (and take responsiblity for) perverse actions that our society generally classifies as crimes.

Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie.

If you think this is absurd, let's get together in 10 or 15 years, and I bet my dystopia trumps your utopia.



That's...imterestimg.


Usually..I..see...the..right..here..delievimg..it..is..protectimg..imdvidual..
freedoms..amd..freedom..of..speech..from..the..horrors..of..political
correctess..amd..other..examples..of..the..awful..group..thimk..from..the..left.


Mote..it..is..the..masty..Europeam..socialists..ad..welfare.state..propomemts..
which..cemsor..these..sites..ad..the..decemt..godly..USA..which..allows..them.




Please..give..examples..of..we..Progressive..Liderals..supportimg..child..sexual..aduse,
y..the..way.




(Sorry..re..type..keydoard..kaput)


I guess this was supposed to be humerous, Certainly Kara seemed to appreciate it. I'm afraid I missed the joke, or should I say I.....missed....the....j....oke...!

Progressives, of course, don't support child abuse.

Once pedophiles are able to phrase their lust in acceptible terms to the Left, Liberals will be all for the freedom of an adult to make love to a person here-to-fore considered a child.

After all, that's what Progression means.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2007 01:23 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Freedom of Speech

What are its limits?

This is (or should be) the substance of the discussion.

Generally it depends upon whether you advance the interest of the individual or the group (A most common theme when the Left debates the Right).

If we want to allow each and every pervert the abililty to spread his or her perverse thinking along the communicative media of our society --- so be it, but then we should accept this Left Wing thinking and we need to come to grips with (and take responsiblity for) perverse actions that our society generally classifies as crimes.

Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie.

If you think this is absurd, let's get together in 10 or 15 years, and I bet my dystopia trumps your utopia.



That's...imterestimg.


Usually..I..see...the..right..here..delievimg..it..is..protectimg..imdvidual..
freedoms..amd..freedom..of..speech..from..the..horrors..of..political
correctess..amd..other..examples..of..the..awful..group..thimk..from..the..left.


Mote..it..is..the..masty..Europeam..socialists..ad..welfare.state..propomemts..
which..cemsor..these..sites..ad..the..decemt..godly..USA..which..allows..them.




Please..give..examples..of..we..Progressive..Liderals..supportimg..child..sexual..aduse,
y..the..way.




(Sorry..re..type..keydoard..kaput)


I guess this was supposed to be humerous, Certainly Kara seemed to appreciate it. I'm afraid I missed the joke, or should I say I.....missed....the....j....oke...!

Progressives, of course, don't support child abuse.

Once pedophiles are able to phrase their lust in acceptible terms to the Left, Liberals will be all for the freedom of an adult to make love to a person here-to-fore considered a child.

After all, that's what Progression means.


No. It wasn't supposed to be humorous.


Once again, please provide evidence of your accusation.

Here it is:

"Of course the goal of Progressive Liberalism is to remove any and every value judgment. Sex with children should not be judged by Society, but by the intentions of the Pedophile and the Child. Iddy Biddy Chuck gets a kick out of teacher Bruce playing with his willy, and so it is all OK as long as Bruce has "feelings" for young Chuckie."



Silly insults, oddly enough, are not evidence.

Well, they provide a great deal of evidence about you, but not of your assertion.

So...you assert progressive liberalism aims to remove every value judgment, and hence will support sex with children"


Since all you label liberals must, by your definition, support such removal of value judgment, then they (American use of the term liberal is so sloppy that I will allow, for argument sake, your labelling of me, for instance, as a liberal) must all, by your contention, support sexual contact between children and adults.


I'll make it easy for you.


Show me where all those you label liberal here support sexual abuse of children (that's what I call it...you appear to wish to call it something else...but I do not intend to mislabel it).


Go on.


Put up or admit you are trolling with stupid slander.
0 Replies
 
 

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