Quote:Why... oh why... would an all loving God "create" something (us) only to subject it to eternal damnation in the end for not following the "rules"?
he wouldn't. both neo and i agree that hell isn't anything like people think it is. in his version, unworthy people are completely obliterated (let him feel free to correct me...) and in a jewish version of what ended up known as "hell," it is more like complete awareness of your faults.
i think you'll find if you study these things further, and not only in the bible, that you'll get past this "heaven/hell" obsession so many people have. that doesn't mean there's no afterlife. maybe there is- i wouldn't worry about it, if you believe in a reasonable god, s/he'll be reasonable, right? i think people put too much stock in their interpretation of the bible. the hell they've made out to frighten people with isn't a christian thing, it's some kind of persian myth.
Quote:Or perhaps that "damnation" isn't so much "hell fire" as described by the christians, as much as it is "feeling" like hell fire because of being forced to walk the earth eternally disturbed and caught between two worlds forever void of the presence of this God. You, know the bible does use a lot of symbolism...
of course it does. and there's where neo and i stop agreeing, i'm sure. that is, we interpret things much differently. my interpretation is a lot more open, too, not concrete. it's just not important, in my view.
Quote:Maybe the weeping and gnashing of teeth isn't caused by being burned, but just living eternally in a state of regret?
maybe.
Quote:Ok. ok. I know I've steered away from thinking about this stuff for quite a while. But don't you think that part of making an informed decision is looking at it from all the possible angles?
YES.
Quote:Yet that theory has a few holes in it because if people can actually talk to the dead..
big "if" there.
Quote:It also punches several holes in the "Heaven" theory. Because my understanding of heaven was that once you were there just being in the presence of this almighty God would sweep away all that your life was and He would be your only focus for eternity.
okay, but what does that mean? that you'll just sit there thinking "god god god god god" forever? sounds dull, also farfetched. when you stop taking things literally, you don't have to worry about ridiculous things like that. you can ponder things that are more interesting or make more sense, depending on the mood. but many angles is good, i think.
Quote:how can you not ever feel remorse or regret if you are capable of still seeing and even making a presence in the life you just left?
imagine that...
Quote:Why would this God send someone back to comfort a loved one if we were actually completely satisfied in His presence?
this is something that's a lot easier to comprehend when you're not full of angst. i mean, when you're used to being calm. few people are calm all the time, but as you find yourself all in all calmer over many years, this gets less difficult to imagine.
Quote:So this is what the christians call demonic activity.
christians have a lot of theories they're afraid to understand. others break through that fear by pointing at everyone else and blaming them for letting bad things in. oh, america is suffering, because homosexuals have allowed demons to take over! blah blah blah.
talk about superficial. if you want to understand esoteric things, you're in for years of study, not a brief conversation with the pope. hey, the idea that the pope can just say anything and tell you exactly what god is like is a very new idea. none of us know. we've got stuff people wrote down, but i take it all with a grain of salt. it's the only way to keep from throwing out useful information.
Quote:Some say demons appear as loved ones to those who are still alive to deceive them and draw them farther away from Gods presence, and yet this all loving God who created us with the sole purpose of serving and worshiping Him...
see above.
Quote:He sent Jesus to pay the price for our sins!" Ok. So are our sins paid for or not? If he paid the price so I wouldn't have to go to hell why am I then still subject to that possibility? Oh yeah... Because I have to choose right? Hum...
the jesus story isn't original and wasn't new. gods have been crucified before, even to pay for the sins of mankind. once you can move outside one group of interpretations of a story that isn't much different than others, you can look at it from lots of different angles. which one is right?
why do people ask that all the time? what makes them sure that one is right and the other is wrong, or that we can know, or that it even matters? fear of hell, etc. get past that.
Quote:If God knew I couldn't possibly pay this debt why would he pay it for me then still give me the choice of accepting that payment?
weren't you talking about symbols before? you seem to have misplaced them now.
Quote:Better yet... why would I even have the ability to choose if he knew there was a possibility I still wouldn't and the whole purpose of sending that payment was so I didn't have to pay????
maybe the ability to choose is something that can't be revoked unless you give it back. now that it's bestowed, it's yours until you willfully give it up, and there's nothing god can do about that. but you're not still going on about hell, are you?
Quote:But see even now I and anyone else who dares questioning all this and for has a lack of faith in this all loving all knowing God who doesn't want to send me to hell is subject to damnation.
...if you say so.
Quote:and trying to sort through all the rubble to come to some sort of conclusion as to a truth of some sort.
you won't reach it this year.
Quote:But is there an ultimate truth to anything?
possibly.
Quote:Or is truth something we make up as we go along...
possibly.
Quote:Is it possible that a christian could spend eternity feeling as though they are in eternal bliss or damnation simply because of how they believed?
it's possible for that to happen even before death.
Quote:And that the rest of us heathen yahoo's will spend it wandering the earth and protecting the ones we love who are still alive? Would that not be selfish on the christians behalf to be oblivious to the world around them because they spent their entire life doing things to ensure their ticket to eternal bliss?
maybe eternal bliss isn't the answer. maybe it's only part of the answer. maybe people seeking eternal bliss or eternal reward are only seeking part of the answer.
Quote:Wouldn't that be the ultimate act of selfishness, which goes against everything we are told the bible teaches?
now there, you might be onto something.
but don't paint them all with the same brush. there are a lot of christians (somewhere!) trying to find better ways to help mankind, just for the sake of helping people. some of them aren't even looking for converts.