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Muslim leaders write to Pope asking interfaith understanding

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 04:54 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
And no doubt some fine words will emerge at the end. But everyone knows, and this includes the Pope and the Muslim leaders, that Islam and Christianity are quite contradictory and irreconcilable. I dont understand what they have to talk about. I'm not suggesting they fight about it, but perhaps they could play football for the True Way Trophy.


Well, both are religions, and the meeting is part of the Vatican's inter-religious dialogues ...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 08:06 am
I am still struggling to understand how intelligent thoughtful and decent people can hold onto irrational beliefs about what cannot be known.

In particular I'm still in shock from learning that Neologist, on another thread, is a Jehovah's Witness.

If a Christian accepts that Islam is just another way to understanding God, then the same logic applies to all other religions and beliefs, and reduces Christianity itself to the same status.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 09:41 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
I am still struggling to understand how intelligent thoughtful and decent people can hold onto irrational beliefs about what cannot be known.

In particular I'm still in shock from learning that Neologist, on another thread, is a Jehovah's Witness. . . . .
And I haven't bombed anybody since. . . Razz
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 09:50 am
As this thread is about interfaith dialogue and understanding, do you accept anyone else's understanding of God is as valid and worthy as yours? Including mine?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 11:28 am
I try to treat everyone I meet with courtesy and respect. I like to think I have developed a standard of principled love (agape) for all.

That would include those whose conduct is criminal and whose understanding of "god" might be understood to be clearly flawed.

However. . .

My opinion does not matter.

Each of us must stand on his own before God, whom I consider to be far more capable of mercy and forgiveness than I could be.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 11:32 am
I'll take that as religious-speak for yes.

And if your respect for others is not reciprocated?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 03:18 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
I'll take that as religious-speak for yes.

And if your respect for others is not reciprocated?
Heh Heh!

I look like an escaped gorilla.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 07:14 am
neologist wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
I'll take that as religious-speak for yes.

And if your respect for others is not reciprocated?
Heh Heh!

I look like an escaped gorilla.
Looking tough didnt save the Archbishop. If he had renounced Christ and accepted Mohammed into is heart, he could have lived.


BBC wrote:
Archbishop in Iraq 'found dead'

Paulos Faraj Rahho, the Chaldean Catholic archbishop in Iraq who was kidnapped last month, has been found dead, according to reports.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 07:27 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
BBC wrote:
]Archbishop in Iraq 'found dead'

Paulos Faraj Rahho, the Chaldean Catholic archbishop in Iraq who was kidnapped last month, has been found dead, according to reports.


The first Catholic priest to be killed after 2003 was Fr Ragheed Ganni ...
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 07:42 am
No doubt his killers believe they were doing the will of Allah.

Whilst we take it as a given that tolerance and understanding of other faith groups should be widely embraced, this is just not reciprocated by some Muslims.

I really dont think there is a moral equivalence between all faiths. Some are better than others, and I put those who use faith to justify violence right at the bottom of the moral heap.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:09 am
I never have taken issue with those who would die for their faith.

But those who would kill for their faith are scary.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:32 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
If a Christian accepts that Islam is just another way to understanding God


But we don't.

Quote:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me John 14:6


Christ presented Himself as THE way to God.

This is one of the problems that those who want to regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' have.

You can't regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' when He makes statements like that.

He didn't leave you that option.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 03:14 pm
real life wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
If a Christian accepts that Islam is just another way to understanding God


But we don't.

Quote:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me John 14:6


Christ presented Himself as THE way to God.

This is one of the problems that those who want to regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' have.

You can't regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' when He makes statements like that.

He didn't leave you that option.
Its your problem not mine. I am quite relaxed about the fact that two completely contradictory faiths cannot both be right.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 04:51 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
real life wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
If a Christian accepts that Islam is just another way to understanding God


But we don't.

Quote:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me John 14:6


Christ presented Himself as THE way to God.

This is one of the problems that those who want to regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' have.

You can't regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' when He makes statements like that.

He didn't leave you that option.
..... two completely contradictory faiths cannot both be right.


I don't disagree with this. Both cannot be right at the same time.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Mar, 2008 05:02 pm
tinygiraffe wrote:
reach out to fundamentalists? oh that works REALLY WELL for liberal christians trying to "reach out" to knuckle-draggers like pat robertson, who howl and jump up and down at the big red button like it's the monolith in 2001: a space odyssey.

getting real for a moment, the future probably does depend on this sort of thing, but the pope? they should have tried it with the last one, not one who's got his head so far up his tradition that he thinks the best thing that could happen to our future would be going back to latin. good luck to them. there are christians they can actually talk to, but benedict? ha!
Maybe that is why they are asking the pope, So public opinion can see the Pope turn them away.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Mar, 2008 10:16 am
real life wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
real life wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
If a Christian accepts that Islam is just another way to understanding God


But we don't.

Quote:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me John 14:6


Christ presented Himself as THE way to God.

This is one of the problems that those who want to regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' have.

You can't regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' when He makes statements like that.

He didn't leave you that option.
..... two completely contradictory faiths cannot both be right.


I don't disagree with this. Both cannot be right at the same time.
Could both be false? I was thinking this morning that if the Universe is the definition of all that exists - and God exists, therefore God is part of the Universe. This begs the perfectly legitimate question of how God created the Universe and himself as part of it. Or more simply who created God? Alternatively if God is not part of the Universe, by definition, he does not exist.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Mar, 2008 05:16 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
real life wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
real life wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
If a Christian accepts that Islam is just another way to understanding God


But we don't.

Quote:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me John 14:6


Christ presented Himself as THE way to God.

This is one of the problems that those who want to regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' have.

You can't regard Him as 'just a good Teacher' when He makes statements like that.

He didn't leave you that option.
..... two completely contradictory faiths cannot both be right.


I don't disagree with this. Both cannot be right at the same time.
Could both be false?


Of course both could be false.

Steve 41oo wrote:
I was thinking this morning that if the Universe is the definition of all that exists - and God exists, therefore God is part of the Universe. This begs the perfectly legitimate question of how God created the Universe and himself as part of it. Or more simply who created God? Alternatively if God is not part of the Universe, by definition, he does not exist.


Since your definition of 'universe' is faulty, the rest of your argument collapses.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 12:51 pm
In what way is my definition of the Universe faulty?

I'll settle for this Chambers dictionary definition

Quote:
universe noun 1 astron a (the Universe) all existing space, energy and matter, ie the whole of space and all the galaxies, stars, planets, moons, asteroids and other bodies contained within it; the cosmos.


In what way have Chambers got it wrong?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 12:54 pm
My argument does not collapse. I am highlighting a logical paradox that religious people dont want to face up to.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 01:36 pm
I think most christians see God as the superset, of which the Universe is a subset.

From a scientific perspective that means that most christians believe in a super-Universe which consists not only of the natural Universe, but also their own imaginations.

They of course assign the name "God" to that which they imagine, and they assume it has reality outside of themselves. An assumption never once confirmed in thousands of years of human history and billions of lives.

Which brings us back to the interesting truth, which is that some people are in essence defining the Universe as something which is superseded by their imagination. And that's a very strange way for any animal to see the world when you think about it.
0 Replies
 
 

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