Sweeney Todd

I don't know about England, but in our area, horror is on the menu as a date movie. I think it might be the signing the would put off the guys, but the violent gore just might rake them in. Johnny Depp has more of a pop voice than an operatic voice but it works in the film. Angela Landsbury is the ideal Mrs. Lovett on stage and had that wry comedy touch that nobody could match. Landsbury is also not the worlds best singer, however, but a character actor will almost always do a professional interpretation of Mrs. Lovett despite not the best vocal chords for singing. Alan Rickman overshadows her and his character is written with more depth in the history of the play. Johanna is the crucial singing role and it's handled vocally by Jayne Wisener who has a very good singing voice (unless she was dubbed -- I'll have to check that out). Bonham Carter's film career tops Landsbury's, however, and the way she played it, I believe, is Tim Burton's interpretation -- Mrs. Lovett, after all, is reponsible for the pies.

I think that "Sweeny Todd" shows how incredibly decadent our movies have become. Only people with hidden S-M leanings could truly enjoy such a movie.

...except that the story of Sweeney Todd dates back to the nineteenth century. If it is indeed a sign of decadence, it appears not to be a new or recent phenomenon. Whatever such tastes say about culture, if they say anything about it at all, is probably as old as the complaint about decadence itself, which is to say several centuries.

As if decadence is relegated to our modern society. This is a horror story executed (whoo!) as an opera (it, like most of Sondheim, is well past just being a Broadway musical) inspired by what is said to be a true story, but just as well it is also satire and there is a feeling of redemption as well as revenge. I have a feeling anyone who strikes it off as MarySzy has, has not even seen the stage production, the previous PBS productions, one of them "in concert," will the horror and gore only hinted at so perhaps that's the one you should see if you are put-off by the graphic approach of Tim Burton.

As if humankind has not evolved without blood and violence, however mostly attributed to religious fanatics.

I am sure that I am not as sophisticated as Light Wizard. I guess I could be called a "weirdo" since I go to the Cinema mainly to be entertained.
I do not enjoy garbage like "The Rocky Horror Show" which, in my estimation, was made only for the enjoyment of perverts and druggies.

When one views the totality of the films that have won the Academy Awards, there are few films like Sweeney Todd, but many like The Godfather, Patton, My Fair Lady, The Sound of Music, Hamlet and Cyrano.

Those films are probably too mainstream for Light Wizard. But I am sure that his taste is far far more evolved than the majority of film goers.

I am sure that he greatly enjoyed Eraserhead!!!!

Weirdo or decadent... take your pick. The grass is always greener, as they say.




Putting aside the fact that every disturbing scene in Sweeney Todd has an equivalent among the Academy Award winners, no one is questioning your choice to use the Academy Awards as your standard of cinematic quality. We're simply pointing out that the displays of decadence you think our movies have "become" has been around for as long as there have been people to complain about it.

"Eraserhead," not my favorite David Lynch. That would be "Blue Velvet" or "The Elephant Man."

If you would not be entertained by Sondheim's wonderful score, you wouldn't be able to get past the story. You might like the stage version, or perhaps Sondheim's "Sunday in the Park with George" is more to your liking. Well, it did win the Pulitzer Prize.

I do go to the movies or seek out DVD's or cable showings that are either entertaining or have a depth of ideas in the story, or maybe even both (you don't see that very often). "The 400 Blows," for example, is both entertaining and also has the most depth of any coming-of-age film (which practically spawned that whole genre).

Tim Burton has always meant to entertain first, but he is an auteur filmmaker as well in that his style is unmistakable. The horror and gore in "Sweeney Todd" is black humor and there are some that might believe the graphic parts are over-the-top. Of course, Mary, Mary, quite contrary, whether or not you've even seen the film. If this is another "I believe because of what the uptight Catholic's opinion" (at least the choir boys have been said to be uptight)" then your opinion doesn't mean much. It's like not voting but complaining about the government.

Not that the Catholics are any better than the Babtists.

You mean to tell me there's nothing decadent about "The Godfather?" Really. I suppose you've woken up beside a horse's head sometime in your life?

My thoughts exactly. Loved Godfather (of course!) but come on! We'd never seen it quite like that before!

Yeah, that's a double bill I can only imagine. First "The Godfather" and then the sticky sweetness of "The Sound of Music." It would be like washing down a strong double martini with a glass of milk and honey.

"Cyrano de Bergerac" did not win nor was nominated for an Oscar, but Jose Ferrer did win. As far as mainstream movies, that film and "Hamlet" with Sir Laurence Olivier, were not big box office and never aimed at a popular market. I recall having to go to the Vogue art film theater in Hollywood to even see "Hamlet."

As far as decadence impressing the Academy, there was "Midnight Cowboy," "Taxi Driver," "The Silence of the Lambs" (now almost a vintage film), "Midnight Express," and so forth and so on.

As far as musicals, "Oliver!" was Dickens tearing the cover off London decadence, "Chicago" where two murderesses are the stars with a Lesbian prison guard and a snake attorney (if you want decadence and ugliness, try reading about Chicago during the period that musical takes place -- it puts nearly all European cities to shame in that department). Then there's always "Cabaret" about the decadence of pre-war Berlin.

Anything else?

"American Beauty" kind of rocked me. Both lead performances were superb but geez louise, the subject matter was hard to stomach. Had me asking the same questions as MarySzy. "Is this where we're headed???"

The response to films like "American Beauty" has be either as a downer or uplifting. When the theme and message is exposing an underbelly of what isn't that unusual in American life and your life is nothing coming close to that twisted, it can be positive. But, of course, I can't believe that there is anybody who hasn't had some family and friends dysfunction around them at one time or another. What did Katherine Hepburn say about the situation in "The Lion in Winter" but, "Well, every good family has its ups and downs." That was good old Medieval decadence, hundreds of years ago. I guess some people didn't do well in history at school.

Everything and everybody is dysfunctional. It's just a matter of degrees, right? But "American Beauty" depressed me greatly and when it won the Oscar, that depressed me even more because I expected a slew of "those types" of movies as a result and society would just slide even further down the toilet, not only accepting this sort of subject matter as entertainment but rewarding it as well. Happily, there hasn't been as many as I feared. Some but not a slew.
Annette Bening does well in these types of movies, doesn't she? "Running With Scissors" particularly. Does anyone play crazier than she? She really is gifted with understanding the nuances of madness.

I agree with Eoe that American Beauty has some stellar acting performances but has some questionable messages. However, what I can't stomach about the film has little to do with its implications about family life or American culture; rather, it's the hyper-romanticized, naive view of beauty that I find questionable. I'm thinking especially of that scene where Ricky is waxing poetic about how beauty can be found everywhere if you just look hard enough ("Look closer" is the movie's tagline) and one of his examples is the frozen corpse of a homeless woman. And there's that look of awed reverence he has as he's gazing at the bloody head of Kevin Spacey. To me, those are compelling illustrations that the search for beauty at all costs might not be quite the enlightening and liberating quest that the movie tries to make it look like.

I like Tim Burton and Depp Combination... always give wonderful films... Sweeney Todd should be exciting too...

"American Beauty" starts out as a satirical black comedy of a middle class family who represent half of the straight married couples and their families in America -- that is, before the divorce. I found myself laughing out loud at the husband and wife dysfunctional antics. Having worked closely with married couples in the interior design, lighting design and audio/visual design, I can state that, at least, those same couples are pretty plentiful in Orange County at least, thus the inspiration for the series "The OC." The movie plays mental tricks which I can see some becoming resentful in supposedly being manipulated. The twist of the end of the story is not typical but, then, who wants to watch a movie with typical people? It was painfully realistic and the message isn't one that everyone can swallow (double entendre intended). For instance, I didn't really care for the expose of is supposedly typical American family in "Ordinary People" as it was being more pretentious than its' attempt to be portentous. Robert Redford has made much better movies since.

In my humble opinion, American Beauty can be better understood and stomached from a man's point of view than if you are a woman, for it's psychologically more violent, (similar with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest). Well, I like it :wink: and it's among the best I have ever seen. I don't think the film really wants to force you to believe that a man shot in the head is beauty. The crux is there, as what Rick spoke to that girl "Yes, you are, you are ugly, and you are totally ordinary." It's a message that attempts to drag some people out of their numb, senseless lives. And it's a message that should spread not only in American, but virtually everywhere in the world. For instance, it can have a loud voice in this crazily developing China, where the pursuit of happiness is taken over largely by pursuit of money, and too many unnecessary worries for security and interests took up a lot of space for mere fun.

Well, you might think that Rick is decadent in some way. But that family itself is decadent, too. Right? You might discuss the danger of this beauty-centered way of life by writing something like Picture of Dorian Gray, but here, in this film, the filmmakers want to emphasize something else. Last word, I think Kevin Spacey a wonderful actor. Do tell me some other roles he has played and I will rush to see them.

And about Sweeney Todd, My girlfriend has seen that. She is a very open-minded person. But she biologically refused that type of art. She nearly vomitted. o o p s

^
Told ya the special effects were good didn't I

I like the way you worded that. Welcome!

You must rent "The Usual Suspects". This is the movie that really put Kevin Spacey on the map. Superb performance!

Kevin Spacey is also great in Se7en. Your girlfriend won't want to see that one.