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The decider is the ego

 
 
coberst
 
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 03:34 pm
The decider is the ego

Humans appear to be the only species of animal that has placed self-consciousness, in the form of what is called the ego, between animal instincts and animal behavior. That is, the ego interrupts the flow of instinct directly into action. The ego, the decider, says HALT, HOLD IT, to the force of instinct. Human action does not immediately follow instinct because the ego absorbs the energy of instinct.

The ego is also a decider regarding all manner of things that might cause the creature to feel anxious. As the ego learns what causes anxiety it learns what inputs from both inside and outside the creature must be controlled. The ego becomes both the decider and the defender.

In its role as defender the ego utilizes the mechanisms of denial, repression, and partialization. The latter represents the highest price that the creature pays for this defense against anxiety. The process of partialization limits the experience that the ego allows the creature to enjoy.

"The ego, the unique "psychological organ" of the higher primates, develops by skewing perceptions and by limiting action." Early in the infants life the "ego grows by a dispossession of the child's own inner world. The mechanisms of defense are, after all, par excellence techniques of self-deception."

We often lament that "I can't make him change his mind." Why is it virtually impossible to change another's mind? Often it is because the ego will not allow it. The ego recognizes that to change the mind in this matter is to lead to anxiety and thus the ego will not permit it to happen.

THEY are not necessarily too stupid to change, just as WE are not necessarily too stupid to change. It may very well be that their ego and our ego will not permit the anxiety that will result from the change.


Perhaps this is one reason for such strong anti-intellectualism and negative bias against psychology in America. The ego controls such things so as to reduce a cause for anxiety in the individual.
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kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2007 01:34 am
no, the ego is the spokesman. and it is appointed so by the rest of the selves competing for the aisle seat.
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OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2007 08:54 am
lately i have been realising more and more that i dont have an ego like everyone else, it is in fact probablly my worst attribute that my ego isn't "stronger".

Could it be a bad thing i recognized my ego early on and attempted to compensate for it?

Is it the ego that keeps most human beings i know from being able to accept the fact we are simply an animal like all the others with just more pronounced mental capabilities?
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2007 04:30 pm
Quote:
lately i have been realising more and more that i dont have an ego like everyone else, it is in fact probablly my worst attribute that my ego isn't "stronger".


As far as I know, Eastern spiritualists (I don't understand the use of that term) would class an ego that isn't ?'strong' (in the way we think of it) as strong.

Quote:
Is it the ego that keeps most human beings i know from being able to accept the fact we are simply an animal like all the others with just more pronounced mental capabilities?

I doubt you'd find anyone that disagrees with that definition…though some don't like the fact that we are animals, any argument would be a matter of preferred perception of the meaning of a word (animal).

Quote:
We often lament that "I can't make him change his mind." Why is it virtually impossible to change another's mind?

Usually because neither side listens to the other… and until you know that the other person has completely heard and understood you, you aren't very inclined to listen to their story.

Quote:
Often it is because the ego will not allow it. The ego recognizes that to change the mind in this matter is to lead to anxiety and thus the ego will not permit it to happen.

It won't accept anxiety imposed by another, but it will accept anxiety from within. So if you try to change a persons mind, without first addressing and understanding why his mind is currently the way it is…you are trying to impose idea's on the other…imposing said anxiety, which the ego resists.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Oct, 2007 08:01 am
hmm... confusing use of terms here.

A strong ego is one that recognizes it's own selfishness and seeks to alter it. A weak ego is a wildfire in the hearts of those who can only want and be miserable for it.

But as for what is the decider, I do not think that this can be simply explained.


"It is the primal nature's attributes that action (deciding is action) comes from, but those who are blinded by the ego think: I am the one acting.

One who truly knows the distribution of the primal nature's attributes and actions is not bound. He thinks: Attributes work among attributes."

Bhagavadgita
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coberst
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Oct, 2007 06:29 am
Ego says, HOLD IT, TIME OUT!

The ego is our command center; it is the "internal gyroscope" and creator of time for the human. It controls the individual; especially it controls individual's response to the external environment. It keeps the individual independent from the environment by giving the individual time to think before acting. It is the device that other animal do not have and thus they instinctively respond immediately to the world.

The id is our animal self. It is the human without the ego control center. The id is reactive life and the ego changes that reactive life into delayed thoughtful life. The ego is also the timer that provides us with a sense of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. By doing so it makes us into philosophical beings conscious of our self as being separate from the ?'other' and placed in a river of time with a terminal point?-death. This time creation allows us to become creatures responding to symbolic reality that we alone create.

As a result of the id there is a "me" to which everything has a focus of being. The most important job the ego has is to control anxiety that paradoxically the ego has created. With a sense of time there comes a sense of termination and with this sense of death comes anxiety that the ego embraces and gives the "me" time to consider how not to have to encounter anxiety.

Evidence indicates that there is an "intrinsic symbolic process" is some primates. Such animals may be able to create in memory other events that are not presently going on. "But intrinsic symbolization is not enough. In order to become a social act, the symbol must be joined to some extrinsic mode; there must exist an external graphic mode to convey what the individual has to express…but it also shows how separate are the worlds we live in, unless we join our inner apprehensions to those of others by means of socially agreed symbols."

"What they needed for a true ego was a symbolic rallying point, a personal and social symbol?-an "I", in order to thoroughly unjumble himself from his world the animal must have a precise designation of himself. The "I", in a word, has to take shape linguistically…the self (or ego) is largely a verbal edifice…The ego thus builds up a world in which it can act with equanimity, largely by naming names." The primate may have a brain large enough for "me" but it must go a step further that requires linguistic ability that permits an "I" that can develop controlled symbols with "which to put some distance between him and immediate internal and external experience."

I conclude from this that many primates have the brain that is large enough to be human but in the process of evolution the biological apparatus that makes speech possible was the catalyst that led to the modern human species. The ability to emit more sophisticated sounds was the stepping stone to the evolution of wo/man. This ability to control the vocal sounds promoted the development of the human brain.

Ideas and quotes from "Birth and Death of Meaning"?-Ernest Becker
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 01:10 am
kuvasz's source

Quote:
One of man's important mistakes," he said, "one which must be remembered, is his illusion in regard to his I.
"Man such as we know him, the 'man machine,' the man who cannot 'do,' and with whom and through whom everything 'happens,' cannot have a permanent and single I. His I changes as quickly as his thoughts, feelings, and moods, and he makes a rpofound mistake in considering himself always one and the same person; in reality he is always a different person, not the one he was a moment ago.
"Man has no permanent and unchangeable I. Every thought, every mood, every deisre, every sensation, says 'I.' And in each case it seems to be taken for granted that this I belongs o the Whole, to the whole man, and that a thought, a desire, or an aversion is expressed by this Whole. In actual fact there is no foudnation whatever for this assumption. Man's every thought and desire appears and lives quite separately and independently of the Whole. And the Whole never expresses itself, for the simple reason that it exists, as such, only physically as a thing, and in the abstract as a concept. Man has no individual I. But there are, instead, hundreds and thousands of separate small I's, very often entirely unknown to one another, never coming into contact, or, on the contrary, hostile to each other, mutually exclusive and incompatible. Each minute, each moment, man is saying or thinking 'I.' And each time his I is different. Just now it was a thought, now it is a desire, now a sensation, now another thought, and so on, endlessly. Man is a plurality. Man's name is legion.
"The alternation of I's, their continual obvious struggle for supremacy, is controlled by accidental external influences. Warmth, sunshine, fine weather, immediately call up a whole group of I's. Cold, fog, rain, call up another group of I's, other associations, other feelings, other actions. There is nothing in man able to control this change of I's, chiefly because man does not notice, or know of it; he lives always in the last I. Some I's, of course, are stronger than others. But it is not hteir own conscious strength; they have been created by the strength of accidnets or mechanical external stimuli. Education, imitation, reading, the hypnotism of religion, caste, and traditions, or the glamour of new slogans, create very strong I's in man's personality, which dominate whole series of other, weaker, I's. But their strength is the dtrength of the 'rolls'[1] in the centers. "And all I's making up a man's personality have the same origin as these 'rolls'; they are the results of external influences; and both are set in motion and controlled by fresh external influences.
"Man has no individuality. He has no single, big I. Man is divided into a multiplicity of small I's.
"And each separate small I is able to call itself by the name of the Whole, to act in the name of the Whole, to agree or disagree, to give promises, to make decisions, with which another I or the Whole will have to deal. This explains why people so often make decisions and so seldom carry them out. A man decides to get up early beginning from the following day. One I, or a group of I's, decide this. but getting up is the business of another I who entirely disagrees with the decision and may even know absolutely nothing about it. Of course the man will again go on sleeping in the morning and in the evening he will again decide to get up early. In some cases this may assume very unpleasant consequences for a man. A small accidental I may promise something, not to itself, but to someone else at a certain moment simply out of vanity or for amusement. Then it disappears, but the man, that is, the whole combination of other I's who are quite innocent of this, may have to pay for it all his life. It is the tragedy of the human being that any small I has the right to sign checks and promissory notes and the man, that is, the Whole, has to meet them.
People's whole lives often consist in paying off the promissory notes of small accidental I's."
(Lectures of G.I.Gurdjieff)

Gurdjieff goes on to describe the possibility of attaining "higher levels of consciousness", which unlike "the norm" result in greater degrees of
freedom from "waking sleep". The first of such levels involves the passive observation of the "little I's".

I agree with the (Becker ?) analysis of the importance of language presented here in establishing a "self" concept (Though Becker is not unique in this idea). However within that idea lies the nonseparation of "I" as a "doer" or agent possibly as an epiphenomenon of the grammatical structure of any language. (Chomsky). Gurdieff points of the fallacy of this assumpton, thereby giving a possible framework for analysis of the "free will" debate.
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coberst
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 06:53 am
fresco


?'Mind' is merely a style of reaction. One might correctly say that ?'mind' is the measure of reaction a creature makes to a given range of stimuli. The world of meaning for any creature is bounded by the measure in which that creature is able to react to its perception of the world. Paying attention to the world that is bounded by reaction ability is described by Leslie White as "reactivity meaning".

There are four levels of reactivity of an organism to its environment: 1) Simplest response wherein the organism responds directly to stimuli, 2) Conditioned response is best represented by the "Pavalovian Response" wherein there is a response by association, 3) Indirect association takes place when a tool is used to acquire desired object (an ape knocking a banana from a tree with a stick), and 4) Symbolic response wherein a symbol becomes the object causing response, which entails the creation of a symbol representative of an object.

These four different responses are evolutionary but are different in kind. Only humans are capable of all four levels of reactivity. Only humans have the capacity for creating a relationship such as "house" with an object. We might appropriately state that the evolutionary development of mind is a "progressive freedom of reactivity". "Mind culminates in the organism's ability to choose what it will react to."

Delayed reactivity is the birth of freedom; this ability, plus the mammalian evolution of long prolonged development of new born growing up into a society that demanded ever increasing norms of behavior, led to the further development of mind.

Freud helped us comprehend that the ?'id' represents the ?'it' and the ?'ego' represents the ?'I' of the dual nature of humans. Our animal nature leads to immediate response to stimuli and our ego leads to this reactivity being held in abeyance until further consideration. The brain becomes a form of "internal gyroscope" that keeps the organism balanced and keeps the environment at a distance and sorted out.

The ego forms a protective force that organizes perception and bodily control. Most importantly the ego helps the organism avoid anxiety; it provides a rallying point whereby all that is alien to the organism can be monitored and controlled.

In order to separate the ego from the world it seems that the ego must have a rallying point. It must have a flag about which to rally. That flag is the "I". The pronoun ?'I' is the symbolic rallying point for the human's ego; it is the precise designation of self-hood. It is concluded by those who study such matters that the ?'I' "must take shape linguistically". The self or ego "is largely a verbal edifice".

Everything friendly is "me" everything hostile or unfriendly is "not-me". "Speech, then, is everything that we call specifically human, precisely because without speech there can be no true ego. Every known language has the pronouns "I", "thou", and "he", or verb forms which convey these reference points." The large central control brain is there before language, apparently in a potential state just waiting to be galvanized into directivness by wedding itself to the word "I". This wedding made possible the unleashing of a new type of creature to take command of the planet.

"The "I" signals nothing less than the beginning of the birth of values into a world of powerful caprice…The personal pronoun is the rallying point for self-consciousness." The wedding of the nervous ability to delay response, with the pronoun "I", unleashed a new type of animal; the human species began. The ?'I' represents the birth of values.

The ideas and quotes are from "The Birth and Death of Meaning" by Ernest Becker. I have only recently begun to read this author who died at the age of 50. His books are a broad synthesis and seem superior to all others that I have studied in an attempt to comprehend the human condition.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Oct, 2007 08:22 am
coberst,

Next time you find yourself having an internal conversation, or doing the opposite of what "you" had intended, I suggest you re-read the above quote, with a view to re-assignment of the creative theoretical systems of White, Freud and Becker to the "fiction section" of your library.
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