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serial killers - the line they cross

 
 
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 02:55 pm
Watching Seinfeld, wondering who "Joel Rifkin" was... I thought, hey, I'll look that guy up on the net and see if he was an actual serial killer. Well, he was. I've read about a lot of serial killers, and watched documentaries, always left with a nightmare of imagery and thinking about the huge line that one has to cross to kill another person. Then I thought, "How many killers are out there, not caught yet." If you consider all of the people on the missing persons list, there has to be the possibility that they didn't all just run away. I realise that some are people who wanted to leave their life for one reason or another, more often than not, abuse situations. Some I'm sure where accidental deaths... but there are still a LOT of people who go missing each year.

So here's the discussion I'm proposing...

Is there really a huge line that one has to cross mentally to kill someone, or several people? Are there serial killers at large who are actually clever enough NOT to get caught? We think of serial killers being this specific list of people with mental problems who will end up getting caught, due to some little quirk that they can't quite contain. A lot of the people on that list were very calculated in the beginning, and then they got sloppy, or MORE psychotic, leaving a more distinct trail of evidence.

So are there serial killers out there who don't have those quirks, who get away with killing? Maybe they stop before they get sloppy, or maybe they never get sloppy and just keep getting away with it.

Or am I just rambling?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,637 • Replies: 29
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 03:31 pm
Pretty much by definition, I would suppose it would be hard to know.


Since they haven't been caught and all.



But I would imagine there are.
0 Replies
 
EmilyGreen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2007 04:51 pm
I guess thinking about this made me decide to be even more careful when I'm out alone or when getting to know my neighbors. I mean, there's no reason to suspect everyone, but it never hurts to get to know your surroundings.

But seriously, there are a LOT of people on that missing persons list.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2007 05:17 am
When you think about it, its quite easy to murder someone and get away with it.

But thats only the physical act , the mental part is where the debate comes in hehe..

I know an old guy i always thought he was normal, never thought twice about him. turns out hes an ex hells angel hitman, i heard some stories from my dad's friend when i was little , i wasn't supposed to be listening about stuff the guy did. quite horrifying. not so much "grotesque" as the cold calculated manner in which they said he did things.

But anyways, he did things for profit not pleasure and that throws in a wierd twist.

guy A: comes to las vegas to play poker for "fun"

guy B: playing for 20 years and plays poker for "profit"


IMO there are most likely alot of professional killers or people who kill for sport that do not get caught, i mean im quite sure (gangster style!) that even a simple black market 12 gauge with some cash bought ammunition you could take some people out and if you do it semi-discreetly you could get away scot free. Throw in syringes under toenails type ****, poisons, years of planning and whatever else , it can be quite disturbing.

One of my biggest fears is being abducted and tortured, but like surgery style. then you have the holocaust , imagine what those torture victims went through, its i cant think of a descriptive word that does it justice.


murder for profit

murder for pleasure


Does one need a different mindset for those 3 things? i think so..

THERE ARE DEFINITELY PEOPLE WHO KILL FOR A LIVING WHO DO NOT GET CAUGHT, i don't even want to think about any psycho-religious cults
0 Replies
 
EmilyGreen
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2007 06:01 am
OGIONIK wrote:
One of my biggest fears is being abducted and tortured, but like surgery style. then you have the holocaust , imagine what those torture victims went through, its i cant think of a descriptive word that does it justice.


I feel the same way. I love horror movies, but I hate the ones that include stuff like that, because I think it gives sick people ideas. This is why I'm nuts about being careful when I go out. I may be paranoid, but I won't end up a victim! I wish they had to do background checks or something when people want to buy a van with no windows.

You bring up some good points there, and thank you for sharing.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2007 06:37 am
Im at work so i didnt get to finish that post before mr SUPER came in and i closed the window,


but i was gettin at pro's kill for profit, and people who kill for pleasure are probably prone to "wanting" to get caught, im not an expert but i think my observation is correct.

But yeah, then you have to think about say, US soldiers killing for money, is there a difference other than labels?


My mom was telling me about some wierd religious cults that use machines that turn peoples bones into dust or someshit, i dont know if it was a "scare tactic" or what. but the thought of people who kill for fun, are organized and ruthless with some "expertise" could easily exist , sorta sucks.

Police don't show up if noone calls them is my motto.

And then think, what about countries in poorer shape politically and economically, say mexico?

Do you think they have a larger problem with "serial" killings than the U.S. does? Imagine if the us has this problem, without all our forensic technology in other countries it would most likely be quite easy to murder alot of people.

I think most killers (not for profit) are just crazy though. most likely a combination of mental problems and environmental problems. which is why they usually get caught.
0 Replies
 
EmilyGreen
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2007 06:40 am
Its overwhelming when you put it like that, but quite possible. We're under the impression most of the time that serial killers are all white males - you don't hear about serial killers 'of the world' much. We all know that Americans sometimes disappear when travelling abroad, and are rarely found.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 02:03 pm
Concerning cereal killers,
I have always suspected Tony the Tiger.

David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 02:06 pm
I admit, that may result from racial profiling.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 02:10 pm
EmilyGreen wrote:
Its overwhelming when you put it like that, but quite possible.
We're under the impression most of the time that serial killers are all white males -

Well, Tony is a male,
but he is not a white.
He is more of a striped orange n black.

( However, OTHER tigers r whites. )
0 Replies
 
EmilyGreen
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 03:18 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
EmilyGreen wrote:
Its overwhelming when you put it like that, but quite possible.
We're under the impression most of the time that serial killers are all white males -

Well, Tony is a male,
but he is not a white.
He is more of a striped orange n black.

( However, OTHER tigers r whites. )


Bored today? Laughing
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 03:33 pm
bookmark
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 10:16 pm
EmilyGreen wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
EmilyGreen wrote:
Its overwhelming when you put it like that, but quite possible.
We're under the impression most of the time that serial killers are all white males -

Well, Tony is a male,
but he is not a white.
He is more of a striped orange n black.

( However, OTHER tigers r whites. )


Bored today? Laughing

U never bore me.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 10:19 pm
EmilyGreen wrote:
I guess thinking about this made me decide to be even more careful when I'm out alone or when getting to know my neighbors. I mean, there's no reason to suspect everyone, but it never hurts to get to know your surroundings.

But seriously, there are a LOT of people on that missing persons list.

A very significant proportion of them
r children who have disappeared into the possession
of non-custodial parents.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 10:32 pm
EmilyGreen wrote:
OGIONIK wrote:
One of my biggest fears is being abducted and tortured, but like surgery style. then you have the holocaust , imagine what those torture victims went through, its i cant think of a descriptive word that does it justice.


I feel the same way.
I love horror movies, but I hate the ones that include stuff like that,
because I think it gives sick people ideas. This is why I'm nuts about being careful when I go out.
I may be paranoid, but I won't end up a victim!

I felt that way in my childhood,
up thru the first 3 months after my 8th birthday.
This was well over half a century ago,
in Phoenix, Arizona.

I found a cure:
I got a gun.
I won it in a poker game with some other kids.
Its a small framed, short barrelled .38 revolver.
I made a leather holster, n took it everywhere.
Instant serenity n tranquility.

( Truth be told, I never needed it. I lived in a peaceful area,
wherein I never knew of any crime. The police never showed up
with lights n sirens, but still: I had peace of mind. )
David
0 Replies
 
solipsister
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2007 11:38 pm
Oh look at the time, I'm late for an appointment with my physician.
0 Replies
 
EmilyGreen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 06:46 am
OmSigDAVID -

First of all, I love your signature. Both parts of it are brilliant! I like the cartoon where one person has a sign in their yard stating that they are a gun owner and their neighbor is not, and to respect their neighbors opinion about gun ownership, they will never use any of their guns to protect them if their home is broken into. It was worded much better than that, though.

Second - in regards to your posts - I was actually considering the other day about getting my carry permit. I wish it wasn't so expensive. And yeah, the missing children being taken by "the other parent" is probably right.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2007 07:29 pm
EmilyGreen wrote:


Quote:
OmSigDAVID -

First of all, I love your signature. Both parts of it are brilliant!

Thank u. Denotively, it means Opulent Mensan Special Interest GroupDAVID

Connotively, its like a meditative chant: OOOOOooooommmmmmmmm



Quote:
I like the cartoon where one person has a sign in their yard
stating that they are a gun owner and their neighbor is not,
and to respect their neighbors opinion about gun ownership,
they will never use any of their guns to protect them
if their home is broken into. It was worded much better than that, though.

Second - in regards to your posts -
I was actually considering the other day about getting my carry permit.

I wish it wasn't so expensive.

Your life is worth MORE.

Its better to HAVE a gun and not need it
than to NEED a gun and not have it.
( THAT can be very embarrassing. )

Revolvers are more mechanically reliable
than automatics; u need also be concerned about stopping power.

After a few years, I found out that the .38 to which I referred above
did not have enuf stopping power
( which we can discuss in greater depth of detail, if u like ).
I subsequently upgraded to a short barrelled .44 special revolver,
loaded with hollowpointed slugs.

My research has led me to the conclusion
that the optimal choice is large ( .44 ) slow ( special )
hollowpointed slugs.
I suggest that magnum rounds be avoided.



Quote:

And yeah, the missing children being taken by "the other parent" is probably right.

The police have found that to be the case.
Presumably, either parent will have good will for the child,
and be solicitous for his best interests-- more so than a stranger.
Don 't u think ?
David
0 Replies
 
EmilyGreen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 05:40 am
OmSigDAVID, I meant that I like your signature about gun ownership, etc. Smile

And yes, its much better for a parent to kidnap a child than a stranger!

As for stopping power, that was always a concern for the US military. They went through a series of bullets before finding one that could travel long distance AND knock someone down. Most pistols don't have much stopping power, unless they're going to jerk the hell out of your arm. I know someone who did way too much research on the subject, but its his actual job - and of course he shared it with me, ha ha. As for home defense, I have to promote the shot-gun, because if someone hears you pump it, they won't stick around. That actually happened to someone I know... 2 guys broke into his house, and he warned them that they would get shot, then he pumped his shot-gun... and they scrambled over each other to get out of his house. Wonderful moment, I'm sure.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Oct, 2007 12:17 pm
EmilyGreen wrote:



Quote:
OmSigDAVID, I meant that I like your signature about gun ownership, etc. Smile

O, I c !
Thank u.

It surprizes me that my fellow human beings
care so little for the ability to defend their lives.
Thay think its OK to confide their futures
( and the futures of their loved ones )
to the discretion of violent criminals.





Quote:
As for stopping power, that was always a concern for the US military.
They went through a series of bullets before finding one that could trave
long distance AND knock someone down.

In the Philippine Insurrection,
our troops, armed with .38 revolvers,
were repeatedly attacked by doped up Moros,
with machettes. Thay emptied out the cylinders
of their revolvers into the Moros, who perished sure enuf
from their wounds, but first thay chopped up our troops
with the empty .38s.

Then some old timers remembered using the old .45s
and reverted, much more successfully to using them.


" Wise is he who learns from his mistakes,
but WISER is he who learns from the mistakes of OTHERS. "




Quote:
Most pistols don't have much stopping power,
unless they're going to jerk the hell out of your arm.

Hence, the hollowpointed slugs.
Thay r intended to stop the slug WITHIN
the target, to avoid overpenetration,
and deliver a maximal energy dump into that target.
Every footpound of energy that is carried away
by an overpenetrated slug, is wasted and dangerous.

I 'll be interested to know what u get.
( I hope u won 't get something cheap; not safe. )
After u get something, it is important to work out with it,
at the gunnery range; get accustomed to it; comfortable with it.







Quote:
I know someone who did way too much research on the subject,
but its his actual job - and of course he shared it with me, ha ha.

As Groucho Marx used to say:
" step right up and play u bet your life. "

That is what u r doing
when u rely upon your defensive ordnance
in circumstances of predatory emergency.

Better choose something good.








Quote:
As for home defense, I have to promote the shot-gun,
because if someone hears you pump it, they won't stick around.

Yes.
That is a very popular point of vu.
Its best to have a gunsmith cut it down
to the legal limit, for manuverability indoors.

Personally, I am not a shotgun person.








Quote:
That actually happened to someone I know...
2 guys broke into his house,
and he warned them that they would get shot,
then he pumped his shot-gun...
and they scrambled over each other to get out of his house.
Wonderful moment, I'm sure.

Yes.
I 've been reliably informed by a retired police officer
that a high proportion of criminals r cowardly n timid.

( Others r the opposite, and will advance against u,
even when thay c u r armed. )

David
0 Replies
 
 

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