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The Antiquity of Dinosaurs

 
 
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 08:11 am
Where to even start on this one...

Evolution, any version of it, demands expanses of time which are vast compared to anything we know about human history on this planet. School children are still being taught that dinosaurs died out tens of millions of years ago, typically 65M - 150M or thereabouts depending on the type of dinosaur. In particular, bringing dinosaurs into the age of man would pretty much flatten all versions of evolution since it would not allow time for any of them.

Now, it's been known for some time that there were bits and pieces of evidence lying around which were totally out of keeping with this standard view but, prior to the present internet age, it was always possible for ideologically committed darwinists to keep a lid down on this sort of information and prevent the public from having access to it. In the present internet age, that is no longer possible, and the facade is starting to crumble.

There are now a number of websites dedicated to providing this information to the public. Bible.ca for instance:

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/native-american-dino-art.htm

There are recognizable dinosaurs images drawn on canyon walls and around lakes and rivers at various North American sites, which are called "petroglyphs" or rock art. One very clear sauropod images occurs at Natural Bridges Utah:

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-art-wall-etchings-blanding-utah.jpg

Another sauropod image turned up in the 1920s with the Doheney Scientific Expedition in Arizona:

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-art-wall-etchings-grand-canyon.jpg

There is at least one tricerotops glyph in North America:

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-art-wall-etchings-montrose-colorado.jpg

And then you have the case of the stegosaur, which Indians called "Mishipishu" or "water panther". Indian oral traditions describe Mishipishu as having red fur, a sawblade back and a "great spiked tail" which he used as a weapon. Glyphs around rivers and lakes were basically warnings meaning "caution, one of these lives here". Louis and Clarke noted that their Indian guides were in mortal terror of these glyphs around the Mississippi river. Several such glyphs survive today, most notably the one at Agawa Rock, Lake Superior (Masinaw):

http://www.nlmotel.com/images/pictograph.jpg

In fact a better images survives on a column stone at Angkor, Cambodia:

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks-cambodia.htm

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks-cambodia-stegasarus.jpg

The temples at Angkor date from around 800 years ago so that the question becomes less whether the stegosaur survived into the age of man and more whether he survived into AD times in a few remote places.

Then again, there is the recent case of scientists breaking a tyrannosaur leg bone in half to get it out of a remote location with a small helicopter, and finding soft tissue inside it:

http://pharyngula.org/images/trex_endosteal_tissue.jpg

Do your own search on 'tyrannosaur' and 'soft tissue' for this one.

Not that you'll find any lack of "scientists" proposing ways such tissue could have lasted 65,000,000 years, nonethless the idea is clearly ludicrous. It would have to have never rained in Montana or the Dakotas for millions of years...

That was two years ago. More recently proteins from that tissue have been analyzed and turn out to be nearly identical with those of a chicken (do searches on 'tyrannosaur' , 'soft tissue', and 'chicken') so that the trex is seen to be basically a big chicken with sharp teeth. He'd almost certainly have tasted like chicken.

Then again, the bible and to a greater extent the full body of rabbinical literature (midrashim) describe several kinds of animals which are quite certainly leftover dinosaurs, including the reem, behemoth, ziz bird, and several others.

Again prior to the internet age that kind of information was difficult to get a look at. At present, Louis Ginzberg's Legends of the Jews is online:

http://philologos.org/__eb-lotj/

All of this adds up to a big picture view which simply ruins the basis of evolutionism and, in fact, there is now at least one museum open to the public which shows humans and dinosaurs walking around together:

http://www.creationmuseum.org/

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/museum/pictures/dino-p3216697.jpg

Something like 40,000 people went through that thing the first month it was open. Clearly a day is approaching in which anybody trying to talk about tens of millions of years in front of any sort of an American classroom is going to encounter kids who have been through that museum, and you assume that a lot of hundred-dollar shows and non-meetings of the mind are in store.
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 08:27 am
For anyone who would like to see a more factual interpretation of these things I would recommend: The Golden Bough -- by James Frazer or The Mythic Image by Joseph Campbell. If you prefer Gunga's type of interpretation I can recommend Chariots of the Gods -- by Erich Von Daniken, where he shows gunga's type of conclusive proof that cave painting contain images of space suited people and UFOs.

By the way how does this post gib with your comment on another post reproduced here:
Quote:

Thomas wrote:
As a physicist, I'm pretty sure this is a scam,...

Quote:

I'd tend to agree. There is no magic or any violations of physical laws in the real world.


A six thousand year old Earth doesn't violate the laws of physics???

Sorry but I still think spendi is heads and shoulds above you ar real for comic relief.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 08:33 am
Here's proof. This is a photograph of Gungasnake's Grandpa and his pet dinosaur "Dino". I think it was taken a few weeks before The Great Flood. Sorry to say, Dino missed the boat.

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/cartoon/images/Hanna/ftp-fredgolfing.JPG
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 08:38 am
TheCorrectResponse wrote:


A six thousand year old Earth doesn't violate the laws of physics???


Did you hear me say the Earth was 6000 years old?? I mean, maybe I've developed amnesia or something but to my knowledge I've never said that.

Far as I can tell, ALL of the various schemes for dating the Earth are basically broken at this point and all anybody can do is guess. My own guess at an age for the planet would be in the range of a couple hundred thousand years to a couple million.
0 Replies
 
TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 08:49 am
OK...a Earth of a couple hundred thousand to a couple million years doesn't violate the laws of physics???

By the way what about the spacemen and UFO in the cave paintings (Chariots of the Gods)
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 09:34 am
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
OK...a Earth of a couple hundred thousand to a couple million years doesn't violate the laws of physics???



Why should it?
0 Replies
 
TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 10:07 am
First a question. Is that also the age of the universe?

Also still waiting on your expalanation of the spacemne and UFOs in the painting.

Also if you won't accept common dating methods how did you come to your 100,000 - 1,000,000 years range?
0 Replies
 
loony
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 10:08 am
i dont get it. so what are you actually saying OP? boil it down to 20 words or less please.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 10:39 am
Look at that caveman go...

high-ho dino-saur, oop oop.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/9/96/Alleyoop.jpg
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:32 pm
Gunga's favorite documentary:

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MG/142766_b~One-Million-Years-B-C-Posters.jpg



(I'm sorry Gunga, but you make it so easy.)
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 12:50 pm
TheCorrectResponse wrote:
First a question. Is that also the age of the universe?

Also still waiting on your expalanation of the spacemne and UFOs in the painting.

Also if you won't accept common dating methods how did you come to your 100,000 - 1,000,000 years range?


First question, no. I'd assume the universe, like God, is eternal. In particular, the big bang idea is bad physics and bad theology rolled into a package. Having all the mass of the universe condensed to a point would be the ultimate black hole; nothing would ever "bang" its way out of that. Likewise having a supposedly omniscient God suddenly decide (6000 or 17B years ago, it doesn't matter) it would be cool to create a universe while the idea had not occurred to him previously is also unsupportable.

The conclusion I come to is that the universe is eternal, and the creation stories you read in the bible and other antique literature refer to the creation of our own local environment and living world.

I have no real opinions on UFOs and to my knowledge the handful of things in antique art which somebody might construe as spaceships is not comparable to the really big body of artwork involving ancient animals.

Many if not most UFO stories originate aroun d 1946 - 1948. At that time people flying around in piston-engined aircraft were just starting to see jets, including our own F80 and handfulls of captured German jets. The fastest piston-engined aircraft such as the P51, F4, F8 (Bearcat) etc, could hit a bit more than 400 mph at that time but they never cruised at that speed or at much more than about 300 tops while even the first jets could easily hit twice that.
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TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:02 pm
So are the stars eternal, the galaxies, what exactly is eternal. Just need more info to reply.


So I should accept that these are drawings of dinosaurs but cannot assume these are drawings of spacemen and UFOs. Why one and not the other both are based on the same evidence? By the way, according to historians purported UFO sightings have been around for at least a thousand years. In fact a huge amount of these occurred in the late 1890s. you can even see pictures in archived newspapers of the time.

And one more time, if you don't accept standard techniques for determining geological/astronomical age how did you come up with your numbers?
0 Replies
 
loony
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:05 pm
loony wrote:
i dont get it. so what are you actually saying OP? boil it down to 20 words or less please.


Can i have an answer too?


also why do you feel the need to post this information in the science and mathematics section?

what are you trying to achieve by posting here or this information in general?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:20 pm
TheCorrectResponse wrote:


So I should accept that these are drawings of dinosaurs but cannot assume these are drawings of spacemen and UFOs.


I didn't say that. All I said basically was caveat emptor. I've never seen a UFO or a space alien and have nothing I'd call a solid reason to think they exist. But I don't have any reason to think they don't exist either.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:23 pm
loony wrote:


what are you trying to achieve by posting here or this information in general?


This thing with dinosaurs is the thing which is ultimately going to destroy evolutionism. There have been solid disproofs in the past beginning with the fruit fly experiments and the evolosers have been able to ignore all such until now and use political clout to silence opposition. This they cannot ignore or keep any sort of a lid on. AIG has determined to stick the thing in their faces and is succeeding at it.
0 Replies
 
TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:24 pm
Well you seem to be saying that there was a solid reason that you believe dinosaurs and men existed at the same time, the paintings. All I pointed out was that, it seems to me using your own measure of proof, that they must have existed alongside spacemen and UFOs.
0 Replies
 
TheCorrectResponse
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:26 pm
Still waiting on your answer to what exactly is eternal and what isn't as well as how you arrived at your dates since you don't accept scientific dating methods.
0 Replies
 
loony
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:40 pm
hey you seem to be getting angry, i'm new here and i am trying to absorb this information you have produced.

what i cannot seem to get out of my head is the fact that you and your people or whatever you call yourselves seem to have an ulterior motive.


Why do you feel the need to destroy evolutionism?

Do you think the people who believe in Evm inherntly evil?
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:47 pm
Godzilla Vs. Rodin

http://www.phlonx.com/images/godzilla_rodin.jpg
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2007 01:50 pm
Godzilla Vs. Duckra


http://www.worth1000.com/entries/243500/243727NsUR_w.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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