Israeli's release of Palestinian prisoners

I do not think Isreal will release any prisoners with "blood on their hands" nor do I think they should.

I think the release of prisoners should be confined to a few political prisoners that Isreal knows they have no right to imprison. Some of the blame for this situation goes to Isreal's willingness to imprison certain Palestinians for strictly political reasons. In this I speak of a few high profile cases in which Palestinian activists for peace were imprisoned. They were moderates and were courageously speaking against the Palestinian militants but for being so vocal about that whole Isreal-not-occupying-their-territory thing they were imprisoned. Some under the most ridiculous of laws (e.g. one fella held a meeting in his home in Jesrusalem about how to curb the violence and rein in the militants and Isreal arrested him for breaking a law about Palestinians conducting "political activities" in Jerusalem. I believe he has since been released) were used to imprison them.

Beyond that I think it's a near-sighted demand on the part of the Palestinians and the only reason Isreal should even consider it is to keep the peace process alive. And I think Isreal's numbers are sane, a few hundred. Not the 6000 some odd prisoners the Palestinians are demanding.

In any case I think the cartoon is stupid. Releasing the prisoners that the Palestinains want released would be insipid but the cartoon is stupid propaganda. It's also outdated, Isreal already succeeded in their objectives as far as Arafat is concerned (except for the fact taht Sharon didn't get his wish to kill him. IMO, if you are gonna draw a piece of propaganda you might as well put some thought into it.

Craven
Arafat is still the power behind, so to speak the throne. The cartoon is reflects the belief that those who were engaged in terrorist activities will return to them upon release. The fact is some of those released commented upon the documented they signed saying that it was signed to gain release and nothing more.
IMO and I hope I am wrong this truce is being used by the terrorist organizations to regroup and regain their strength. I have no confidence that it will hold and that the road map will not hit a dead end. Again I fervently pray that I am wrong.

I hope so too. I just don't share your one-sided view. I happen to think that both sides are just buying time.

Release of prisoners earns Israel criticism
by Gil Sedan, the JTA




A release of prisoners that Israel intended as a goodwill gesture toward the Palestinians appears to have earned little goodwill. A group of 334 security prisoners were released on Wednesday, several weeks after an initial group of about 200 were freed. Another 99 are scheduled to be released next week.

However, the Palestinian Authority limited acts of rejoicing to protest the ``the insufficient number of
released prisoners."

Palestinian spokesmen echoed the criticism from P.A. President Yasser Arafat, who called the release an
Israeli ``propaganda measure."

Israel came under intense Palestinian and American pressure to release prisoners. Though the release is not
part of the ``road map" peace plan, Palestinian terrorist groups made the release a condition of their unilateral cease-fire, and the United States urged Israel to free a sizable number of prisoners in the belief that it would strengthen P.A. Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas.

Israeli officials debated the issue for weeks, ultimately deciding to release several hundred members of
terrorist groups but not those directly involved in attacks that killed Israelis.

As has been the pattern with Israel's releases of prisoners since the Oslo peace process first began in 1993,
what was intended as a step to elicit Palestinian goodwill appeared to generate more animosity.

``We hope this is a trust-building move that will help promote the peace process," said Arnon Perlman, an
adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

But P.A. Cabinet minister Yasser Abed Rabbo did not appear to be impressed.
``It is worthless and meaningless," Abed Rabbo said. ``It is a theatrical step to appease Washington."
``If Israel intended the release of Palestinian prisoners as a goodwill measure, the result was just the
opposite," Palestinian parliamentary deputy Kadura Fares told Israeli television, according to the Ha'aretz
newspaper.

Buses carrying prisoners left detention centers in the south and north of the country. Relatives waited to
greet them at four checkpoints in the West Bank and one in the Gaza Strip, settling for hugs and kisses instead of
the traditional nationalist songs.

Samir, a man who served 20 months at the Ketziot detention camp in the Negev, said that he was happy to
be out but that he and his friends demanded the release of all the estimated 5,800 Palestinian security prisoners.

As a condition of his release, Samir said he had signed a document promising not to engage in terrorism.

However, attacks against Israelis are ``fighting occupation," not terrorism, he said.

Another prisoner, Hamad al-Smairi, also said he would not abide by his promise of non-violence.
``I am a soldier of the Islamic Jihad and I will do whatever and be whatever the Islamic Jihad wishes," he
said after arriving in the Gaza Strip, according to Ha'aretz.

Not all were so uncompromising, however.
``I will go back to university to study. I did enough as a militant," said Islamic Jihad member Amar Jaradat,27. ``I did my duty and now I have to look after myself and study law."

A group of bereaved families, Israelis and Palestinians, demonstrated at a checkpoint near Tulkarm in favor
of the release.
``The infrastructure of terrorism is the womb of the Palestinian woman, who will never agree to give birth
to a child who will be submissive and will want to live under occupation," said Ronni Hirschensohn, an Israeli who
lost a son in a 1995 terrorist bombing. ``One should start listening to the other side."

At a checkpoint near Ramallah, bereaved families from the other side of the political spectrum
demonstrated against the release.

Yehudit Dasberg, who lost her daughter and son-in-law in a terrorist attack seven years ago, said this was a
day for ``crying for generations."

No sovereign country releases its outlaws and potential killers, and Israel's action proves that it has
capitulated to terrorism, she said.
``Since when has it been our interest to strengthen Abu Mazen?'' Dasberg asked, using Abbas' nom de
guerre.

One of the demonstrators was Dov Kalmanovitz, the first victim of the first intifada that began in 1987,
who was badly burned in a terrorist attack near one of the checkpoints where the prisoners crossed over to P.A.
areas.

A number of Kach activists tried to force their way into the Ofer Camp where prisoners were released.
Police detained one of the activists, Itamar Ben-Gvir.

The Palestinians complained that many of the freed prisoners were scheduled to be released anyway within
a few days.

I think that the Israeli Palestinian conflict and good faith (regardless of side) is an oxymoron!

has to begin somewhere - if I were a praying person, I would pray that history might be denied, and it began here and now...

Like I ahve said a bunch of times, I think all it takes is a US president who is willing to do what it takes.

It would take less than one year and would not be difficult at all.

So - what do you think restrains US presidents from doing what it takes?

Given that they invade countries and assassinate folk and stuff, apparently without blinking?

Domestic lobbies ranging from the Jewsish diaspora to the Christian right (who want to see greater Isreal because they believe it's a prerequisite for Christ's return). Some say it would take a second term president to get it done, it's widely accepted as political suicide to put too much pressure on Isreal.

My ideas would go far beyond mere diplomatic pressure, for a politician they would be suicide.

Hmmmm - a determined second termer would do what?

Why do you think those lobbies have such power? Right wing christians I assume have numbers - does the Jewish lobby have big numbers, too?

I do not know about the numbers of the Jewish lobby, I have seen things that indicate that they are effective.

In the US the lobby need not be large. A small lobby of expatriate Cubans have been helped by the electoral college to gain inordinate sway.

The pro-Isreal lobby is vast, it's not just the Jewish lobby. After 9/11 their lobbying is far more effective as associating the Palestinian terrorism with 9/11 helps detract from Isreal's crimes (settling someone else's land is an act of war).

Oh, I won't go into great deal but a determined person would pressure Isreal. Palestinians are easy to pressure and that needs to be done as well but what is rarely ever done is to make Isreal comply with international law.

They are in violation of multiple resolutions (and those are just teh ones that the US didn't veto) and they are guilty of acts of war against the Palestinians.

To solve the conflict both sides would need to be pressured. Militarily and economically.

I would send troops, the Palestinians would welcome this but the Israelis would be furious. That is the type of move that is not done due to the political powder keg that such a move would be.

There are a million other things, I have said most fo them before. But the key is to pressure Israel. The Palestinians being pressured is a no-brainer. But I have yet to see anyone have the balls to pressure Isreal in a real way.

I'd go so far as to threaten war with them if settlements are not dismantled. That would be an unconditional demand and they'd not be able to use Palestinian terror as an excuse to steal more land.

Hmm - I agree with a lot of that...

It is true that the US has not overly put pressure on Israel, but then again, the US has not HAD to.

Israel fulfilled virtually ALL of its promises made under Oslo:

1: Gave administrative control of 42% of the WB and 90% of Gaza to the PA.

2: This meant that over 90% of all Palestinian Arabs were under the administrative governing of the PA.

3: Israel changed its text books to include 'revisionist History,' which acknowledges that some Israeli troops DID chase out some Arab Refugees.

4: Israel gave 20,000 rifles to the PA, to be used by Police.

5: Israel encouraged the building of a Gaza Airport and Harbor, and permitted Chm. Arafat to build a Casino.

Note that Israel did this under its Labor Government [PM Rabin], and therefore did NOT have to be pressured by the US.

On the other hand, the PA failed to follow out its agreed to tasks:

1: The PA used monies donated by the UN, the US and the EU corruptly, to line the pockets of those loyal to Chm. Arafat, rather than to build up the infrastructure and to build industry

2: They did NOT continue elections, but Chm. Arafat remained in power without being reelected.

3: The PA did NOT change its text books but printed those which did NOT show the State of Israel; which ignored the war aims of the PA; which encouraged children to prepare themselves to be suicide bombers and which called upon Moslems to 'die for Islam.'

4: Not only did the PA give most of its new rifles to former Terrorists [under Al Fatah, Force 17 and the Party of god] but it purchased heavy armaments, bombs, antitank weapons and other military hardware. The only use could be to attack Israel, NOT as a Police function. This culminated in the purchase of 20 tons of arms delivered in the ship the Karine A, which was intercepted by the Israeli Navy.

5: The PA participated in the building of underground tunnels into Egypt, in order to permit smuggling in more armaments, and continued to support Terrorism by saluting its Martyrs in publically-backed funerals.

All this activity was in direct violation of the Oslo agreements, and demanded a response from the US, as a grantor of Oslo.

Note: The question of Israeli Settlements, and of the disposition of Palestinian Refugees, was NOT part of Oslo.

That is incorrect. The US has had to pressure Isreal several times. Once going so fra as threatening to allow its destruction.



Virtually is a key word.



I commend this move.



Isreal destroyed it afterwards.

Isreal also put the final nails in Oslo. After repeated violations on both sides (since you are focused on the PA breaches I will note that the destruction of the PA's ability to function was a violation. That the imprisonment of political prisoners was a violation etc etc).

I fault the palestinians for a stupid bluff after the Clinton talks but to attempt to portray the situation as nearly perfect compliance by Isreal and the opposite from Palestinians is simply untrue.

And, we return to status quo - which of course, is not desirable :sad: Anyone who believes one side is singularly wrong is destined for failure ->

Bill
There is fault on both sides. However, until the PA can control the various terrorist organizations and strip them of their power nothing materially can be accomplished. How can Israel or for that matter negotiate with a PA that has no real power, strength or control? At any time one or more of the terrorist organizations can resume their murderous ways. The road map calls for the disarming of these groups as a first step.
Something the PA has been unwilling or unable to do. As long as that threat exists there can be no real movement. And yes Israel must dismantle the settlements. These actions should occur simultaneously.

But, Israel resumed the murderous ways, once again, first - and with a heavy hand, as usual. The status quo is:



Neither is right, and both are grotesqueries. And, both sides debaucheries harm Palestine the most!

Completely false. Isreal can do its part to comply with international law.

You say that Isreal should dismantle the settlements only when the Palestinians can reign in their militants and that is the settlers wet dream. They know that both sides do little to stop the violence and as it continues they are allowed to continue to steal land.

Isreal's settlement of Palestinian land is an act of war and they don't need anything to stop it. It doesn't stop because of convenient excuses such as yours and settlers oppose all peace plans for that very reason. They are counting on that excuse to continue to steal land.