Why do we think the way we do?

Dear ReDHoRN

Thanks for your very interesting reply----you express yourself in a very calm almost serene manner so your reading about Tao has obviously had a great impact on your life.

There are some who throw Nietzsche's name about as though he was the end all of philosophers but I was struck by his serious warning to mankind about what he perceived as a mortal threat posed by nihilism.
Looking about and seeing all the fanatical skepticism and cynicism at every encounter it would seem to me that he might be correct. Since you quoted him I am not surprised by your warm familiarity with his writings.

I very much like your writing style and will continue to be a fan of yours. Good reading and writing.

I've only had time to look through some of the initial responses so far, but it's an interesting question, Perception. It seemed logical (!) to look back at family/cultural influences and education. Both of these taught me to take nothing for granted, to examine everything -- from history to the use of language to differences among personal choices. Living in other cultures strengthened this -- different cultures have different ways of looking at things, describing them, and prioritizing them. Being an artist (my profession) means looking for new ways of seeing. And being an American means owing one's society the commitment to see things from many differents points of view before one engages politically and even socially.

Thanks for the serious response Tartarin - your experience with different cultures, expecially from an artist's perspective, should give you a vast aray of thought patterns resulting in a wealth of valuable but more importantly, accurate perceptions. BTW, I didn't know you were a professional artist---what medium? Due to your introspection and training to question everything along with your training as an artist should produce extremely accurate perceptions. Thats one reason I would like to know the exact medium through which you express your art. I invite you to PM me if you would like to discuss this off the record so to speak.

these last few posts where...............exhilerating!

Red, Tart..., Perc...y, and Set..;

I think you would all find a book by Arthur Koestler, called "The Lotus and the Robot" of interest; it investigates in a highly readable, and well researched manner, the difference in culturally inspired intelligence between the Eastern, and Western minds.

/BGW

I shall "pass" on your book---my already challenged mental capacity will balk at attemping any reconciliation of minds between east and west.
I think it was Kipling who said "East is east and west is west and n'er the twain shall meet". Our cultures are a universe apart but we can at least be aware that those perceptions in the east will not be the same as ours on ANY subject thus making interactions like negotiation of treaties, extremely difficult.

Back to the topic----I believe a relevant factor has to do with expectations in our youth. High expectations lead to frustration and disallusionment when those expectations are not realized. IMO cynicism and skepticism are the result instead of rationalization that perhaps the expectations were unrealistic to begin with. Those that are unable to put and keep factors in proper perspective will develop into the dreamers and idealists of our society while those that keep most factors in relative harmony with the rest of their world will develop into the pragmatic achievers of society. I'm probably wrong but I want to solicit a response.

This paragraph draws my attention. I know that you have stated that you consider nihilism to be a danger. I do not agree, as i'm sure you know, because of how i view nihilism. I think you have nailed an important human characteristic in this statement, at least as it pertains to a society in which children are routinely educated. I couldn't say if such attitudes arise in "primitive" societies. In Anastasia's "What is Nihilism" thread, i responded:



I believe that your statement is a perceptive statement on that characteristic of some people which leads them, rather than into social participation, into denial of societies "values." It is also lacking in a realization that the core "values" of society are largely neutral statements about (we hope) "the greatest good for the greatest number." It is easy to get lost in that "forest of long awaiting" which is philosophy, and lose sight of the pragmatic aspects of life. I am disgusted by, and opposed to, the introduction of religious morality into the discussions of the polity. I am not alarmed by it, however, as my reading of history has taught me that politicians who survive and consistently succeed are by and large pragmatists. For whatever nonsense they may feed to their constituents at the hustings, they will work together for their mutual benefit, and this usually results in a reasonable degree of benefit for us all. If our government and society is less than perfect, we can accept that, or the blame for our own inaction.

Very good set of observations, there, Boss, in my never humble opinion.

Setanta

My My----receiving a positive response such as that from you is the equivalent of winning the Pulitzer. I was attempting to shed some light on why we become either rigid thinkers or fluid thinkers or most likely a mixture of the two. Then of course the rigids are more likely to become political conservatives and the fluids more likely to become political liberals and idealists.

regarding nihilism---it is because the citizens of the world (especially in the west are becoming more and more educated) (at least you would think so with abundance of institutions of supposed higher learning) and it would appear to me that nihilism only appears to appeal to the more educated and especially those who are skeptics and cynics. Fanatical skepticism and cynicism can only be destructive---especially to the society in which those cynics live---that is my concern and when a respected philosopher such as Nietzsche would go so far as to predict that nihilism would become a mortal threat, who am I not to listen.

obviously Rudyard Kipling never lived in Canada, where "East is east and west is west" and both coexist with a mutual respect that demonstrates that where there are great differences, there are similarities well worth examining, and of benefit to all!
As with all things, opposites inform each other!

and surprisingly, i too agree somewhat (not surprising). with your clasification of idealistic and pragmatic 'growth hormones'.
but lets not loose site from vigorously patting the backs of the pragmatists, that the idealists are still right!

BGW

I expected to be bombarded with comments about idealists vs pragmatists but you're the only one so far. I found this amusing:

BGW wrote:
but lets not loose site from vigorously patting the backs of the pragmatists, that the idealists are still right!

I would say wrong to that ---- they are usually left :wink:

BTW----in Vancouver BC I'm not sure about the compatibility of East and West.

i assume you mean left standing!

and Vancouver is an example of the geographic metaphor that if you go far enough 'west', you end up 'east'!

BGW

You have been "left" standing far too long----any new thoughts on the topic?---I'm drawing a blank after being thoroughly attacked for expressing a love of country on the political forum. The only conclusion I can draw is that among a certain group "love of country" is just not fashionable these days and if you dare voice it you are immediately categorized as a "skinhead" and a Nazi.
What does that tell you about the "thought patterns" and perceptions of this "follow the herd" mentality?

What you ought to draw from that, is the lesson that ideology generates herd behavior, whether the ideologies of the right or of the left . . .

Or possibly that you are infecting others' posts with your own resentments.

Tartarin

Let's see----is that sort of comment "making it personal" or not? I would guess that it's only personal if I say it.

Well now, the fun is draining out of this thread right quickly . . .

okbye

bye Setanta. (waving)

Setanta

Darn it come on back I was just about to respond to your comments when Tartarin "sidetracked"me. While I agree that ideologies inspire the "herd mentality" diverging/opposing ideologies always create a certain amount of polarization depending on the strength of the rhetoric.

Your "off the cuff" definition of nihilism was one of the most creative pieces I've seen in a long while----much to be admired. I hope you're correct about nihilism and Nietzsche is wrong.

Hie Lola

You invited my PM so I sent one----guess you didn't get it.

We were brainwashed by our parents, our siblings, teachers, and our peers. c.i.

Oh, oh perc;

"BGW

You have been "left" standing far too long----any new thoughts on the topic?--- I'm drawing a blank after being thoroughly attacked for expressing a love of country on the political forum. The only conclusion I can draw is that among a certain group "love of country" is just not fashionable these days and if you dare voice it you are immediately categorized as a "skinhead" and a Nazi.
What does that tell you about the "thought patterns" and perceptions of this "follow the herd" mentality?"

actually i've been 'out standing'!

outside a2k, that is, just got back in after being 'stonewalled' by the hamsters for a couple of days!

if i ever find out who's been feeding them anti beaver pellets.............

but i'm afraid i'm the last one to support nationalism; it's one of the many (all) traditional ways that i evade, avoid, and cringe over.

Flags are for wrapping bodies; ask any soldier's mother!