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Thu 13 Sep, 2007 03:28 am
The self is not physical, but symbolic
What are symbols and why are symbols meaningful to me? One answer might be "the self is not physical, it is symbolic"?-Becker.
Mathematics is, I think, a useful means to start an effort for comprehending the nature of symbols.
Mathematical concepts are referred to by symbols, both written and audible. Eighty-five or quatre-vingt-cinq references the same concept as does 85. Common mathematical symbols such as 0, 1, i, pi and e are meaningful because we have become familiar with the concepts that they symbolize when we have studied mathematics in school. Our schools and colleges are interested primarily in helping us use these symbols as an algorithmic means for solving mathematical problems.
I am a retired engineer and I worked constantly for four years in college learning how to do math. Doing math is very important to engineers, understanding math is of little consequence to an engineer's job performance. I suspect most engineers would be somewhat dumbfounded if they were to be asked ?'do your understand mathematics'.
The degree of meaning that these symbols hold for each of us is dependent upon the relationship we have with the concept. Almost all of us will find that the symbols 1, 2, 3, and 4 are meaningful even before we go to school. Those who have studied math in grade school and high school will find that the other symbols mentioned have a meaning of some dimension.
L&N, Lakoff and Nunez, co-authors of "Where Mathematics Comes From", tell us that "to comprehend a mathematical symbol is to associate it with a concept?-something meaningful in human cognition that is ultimately grounded in experience and created via neural mechanisms."
At birth an infant has a minimal innate arithmetic ability. This ability to add and subtract small numbers is called subitizing. (I am speaking of a cardinal number?-a number that specifies how many objects there are in a collection, don't confuse this with numeral?-a symbol). Many animals display this subitizing ability.
In addition to subitizing the child, while playing with objects, develops other cognitive capacities such as grouping, ordering, pairing, memory, exhaustion-detection, cardinal-number assignment, and independent order.
When a child goes to school the teacher depends upon all of these past experiences as prerequisites for a child to readily comprehend arithmetic.
It is our experience in the world that eventually gives symbols significance. As we get older we travel far from these original experiences that give our world of symbols their meaning. We are constantly adding new worldly experiences to augment this meaning we attach to symbols. I suspect that if we could examine closely one of our concepts of a particular symbol we would find that concept to be as complex and convoluted as is our DNA. If we could trace the historical sequences of the structuring of a particular concept it might be as instructive as is a similar examination of our DNA.
Concepts, i.e. symbols, i.e. abstract ideas, are like a gigantic chemical molecule that continues to grow in size and in complexity as we pass through life. The symbol gains grounding from our experiences but the concept also has a great deal that result from our imagination. I think we might say that a symbol is an abstract idea created by experience and imagination, which becomes a significant meaning in our life.
If such is the case can you comprehend why some people might ?'go bananas' when the flag is burned?
"The self is not physical, but symbolic."
Good. Then I, myself, need to lose 10lbs..... symbolically. :wink:
happycat wrote:"The self is not physical, but symbolic."
Good. Then I only need to lose 10lbs..... symbolically. :wink:
actually i think this has more significance for weight loss than many things. most people DO carry their weight (or lack of) as a symbol of status, of health, of appeal, but to a point, it only matters a lot because we agree it matters a lot. (at one point, the cardiovascular system cares too, as do the liver and kidneys.)
but of a lot of it is symbolic. as for the flag, we're treating it more like the swastika every day. the swastika of course, exists in many religions, as do white stars on blue backgrounds like we have on the flag. when people are mad for power, symbols often become more sacred. after all, if a piece of cloth can have more rights than you do, you're pretty much taken care of.
what good is freedom of(/from) religion if you have to pretend your country is god? "thou shalt put no other nations before me! for i am a jealous nation..." nonsense.
The "self" that you speak of was created in the image of God (Gen 1:26). If self is a symbol and not reality then the symbol of "self" is a symbol of God's creation, which is reality.
well, just because it's symbolic doesn't necessarily mean it's real or isn't real. sometimes symbols point to reality, sometimes they don't.
money is a symbol based in fiction that points to the reality of goods, but it's very real to us. on the other hand, it's only paper. so that's symbolism pointing to reality.
then you have symbolism like "hitler is germany and germany is god." that's symbolic alright. but germany fell and "god" ended up in a ditch on fire covered in petrol. and it was his honeymoon!
that's symbolism that isn't pointing to reality.