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Exactly how does one place a lien on property?

 
 
Noddy24
 
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 10:53 am
After seven years of excuses, Mr. Noddy agrees that we have foolishly lent $12,000 to a couple who either cannot or will not repay us. Obviously, we'll be consulting a lawyer, but I'm hoping to garner enough information to make this a One Visit Consult.

What is involved in putting a lien on our debtors' house--which they may forfit in the near future? Can we ask for interest that would have accruced or are we limited to the original debt?

What sort of paperwork is necessary to prove the debt exists?

Any information will be appreciated.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 9,595 • Replies: 16
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 11:10 am
In Connecticut it is a fairly simple form you fill out and file with the town clerk who then records it with the land deed. I would get a lawyer.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 12:34 pm
Thanks, Acquiunk. I'm hoping to make the lawyer visit very brief--and one visit only.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 12:42 pm
I may be mistaken, but I believe the only practical effect of your lien will be to prevent the property being used as collateral for loan, or being sold.
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CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 01:44 pm
Ask about
1) hiring a P.I. to do an asset search, and then maybe
2) garnishing their wages or
3) a lien on their savings/checking accounts.

4) Small Claims Court (no lawyer allowed) may get you
a court judgement to support these actions, but usually
max's out at $5000. So, ask if a civil lawsuit would be
cost-effective or not.

5) Is the debt in one or both person's names? If they
declare bankruptcy (very simple and dirt-easy to do) then
the debt may be completely discharged. If you force
them into bankruptcy, would the judge be more apt to
leave some portion of the debt in place? Worth asking.

6) If it's impractical to collect the debt somehow,
can you at least report it to the three credit reporting
agencies? Then the next creditor might then be warned.


EXAMPLE:
I gave my mechanic $15,000 and my car and he never
completed the work, just let it sit there in pieces for two years.
No lawyer would touch the case because there just wasn't
enough money involved to make a lawsuit worthwhile.
Their advice at that time was to pay $300 for a lawyer to send
him some threatening letters and it might scare him into paying
me back. The mechanic knew it was just a bluff though,
and there never was anything I could actually do to get the
money back. I had to walk away from it. Live and learn.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 02:50 pm
CodeBorg wrote:
Ask about ....

4) Small Claims Court (no lawyer allowed) may get you
a court judgement to support these actions, but usually
max's out at $5000. So, ask if a civil lawsuit would be
cost-effective or not.

5) Is the debt in one or both person's names? If they
declare bankruptcy (very simple and dirt-easy to do) then
the debt may be completely discharged. If you force
them into bankruptcy, would the judge be more apt to
leave some portion of the debt in place? Worth asking.

6) If it's impractical to collect the debt somehow,
can you at least report it to the three credit reporting
agencies? Then the next creditor might then be warned.....


#4 - Not exactly. It's not no lawyer allowed, it's no lawyer required (actually, no lawyer is required, even in regular court - the main differences are that Small Claims is more informal and the monetary limit you mention, which of course is different in every state).

#5 - Excellent idea. Also, find out who owns the house. The "owners" might turn out to be tenants of some family member. Worth a look before investing $$ - you'll need to check at the County Clerk's office.

#6 - Another excellent idea.

Oh, and you need to get the debt secured. Argh, commercial paper was not my forté but the bottom line is that, in a bankruptcy, unsecured debt is near the bottom of the pile. So you'll need to act ASAP to get the debt secured, which I'd recommend you consult a lawyer for the whys and wherefores of that (e. g. when you visit the attorney, I'd make that one of the questions).

Best of luck to you - collections are a bear.
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 03:11 pm
A friend of mine sued AT&T in Small Claims Court, for erroneous billing and violating their contract. They have many lawyers of course, and arrived with two people in suits.

She told the judge "I smell a lawyer" and the judge looked at them and said "You should know better boys". The lawyers were ordered to remove themselves, leaving just the company rep, inept and unprepared. My friend eventually won the case and was awarded lifetime free long-distance service as compensation.

They put a code next to her name in the computer to give her VIP service, so if she has any trouble now she calls and it's "Yes Ma'am. Right away Ma'am".

The moral of the story? Well, this is law. There are no morals; you just play the game.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 03:19 pm
That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard, but it's possible that the laws are different where you are. In NY and Mass., lawyers are allowed in Small Claims. Rare, yes, but definitely allowed. Both states below indicate that an attorney isn't required but there's nothing about not permitting an attorney in either state.

Ah, here's a cite: Small Claims Court and Lawyers
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 03:51 pm
Just got off the phone with the Small Claims Court here in Grass Valley, CA, Nevada County (Tel. 530-265-1318) and they verified that a lawyer is not allowed to be present at the hearing with the judge.

"So, if someone shows up with a lawyer, would they actually be asked to leave?"

"Well yes. If the judge suspects that someone is a lawyer, they will question them and then act accordingly".
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 04:13 pm
I feel the same situation prevails in New Mexico. In any case, our little state has the distinction of permitting individuals to prosecute misdemeanor criminal charges. Prosecution, in this case, may not use an attorney. Defendant may, of course.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 04:14 pm
Funky. Well, ya learn somethin' new every day. Thanks!
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 04:48 pm
Roger--

As I understand it, with a lien, once the property is sold--and taxes are paid--we would have first claim on the buyers's money.

CodeBorg--

They have no assets. Ms. Deadbeat has some expectations--when her parents die. They are living hand to mouth--no savings accounts.

Mr. Noddy loaned them the money because they couldn't get credit elsewhere. Since then they have been through bankruptcy, but our debt was exempted from that settlement.

Unfortunately, nothing is on paper, but Ms. Deadbeat assures us that they will sign papers admitting debt.

Not only to the credit agencies know they are bad risks, the bad risk loan companies know they are bad risks.


Jespah--

I know they own the house--free and clear, at this point. Of course they are behind in their taxes

What does "secured debt" mean?

Mr. Noddy feels that this people are friends (!)--they also defaulted on paying us for a used car, but I've written that off. He doesn't want to ruin a friendship!
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2003 05:17 pm
An unsecured loan is backed up by just a promise and a contract. A "signature loan" or credit card has only ones signature to back it up, so it's easy to just walk away from it.

A secured loan has a condition in the contract that if payments are not met, then some specific property can be seized (foreclosed or repossessed) to pay for the loan. The bank can give you a better rate on a secured loan, because they are confident (secure) they will get their money one way or another.



If they own their house free and clear, they may have the ability to pay back your loan and for the car within a couple weeks, anytime they please.

I believe that any bank will lend 80% of the value of a home, no-qualification, no income verification, regardless of credit. That's instant money that can be used for anything, just for the effort of filling out a form.

If there is no mortgage or lienholder on the house currently, I'd go ahead with putting a lien on it before other people get in there! You can't collect until the house is sold, but payback is gaurenteed for you eventually. Your loan would be "secure" because of the value of the house backing it up.

If they finance their house next week with a "first mortgage", then the mortgage will have first priority before you, so you might have to act quickly. Otherwise they could pocket the money and just walk away.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2003 05:05 am
What Codeborg said.
Thomas Nivada
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 25 Apr, 2013 11:57 pm
@jespah,
As far as my point of view is concerned so we should get concerned to a legal lawyer and handover our all problem to him and he will must do the best things for us and make us clear batter from all this situation.
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Apr, 2013 12:12 am
@Thomas Nivada,
Thomas Nivada wrote:
As far as my point of view is concerned so we should get concerned to a legal lawyer and handover our all problem to him and he will must do the best things for us and make us clear batter from all this situation.

I'm not really sure what you said, there, but extra points for resurrecting a 10 year old thread.
0 Replies
 
Thomas Nivada
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Apr, 2013 01:45 am
Well it might make you the really nice consultant to you and provide the best information you are looking for. I would must take the services of solicitors feel free that he would make my work really nice.
0 Replies
 
 

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