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"Our" Lord God....day late and a dollar short

 
 
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 12:40 pm
Another poster made a comment to leave something "in the hands of our Lord God."

Why do we always have to leave things in God's hands AFTER something terrible has happened? If he's so almighty, powerful, wise and benevolent why does he let these things happen in the first place?

I'm an agnostic: don't necessarily believe one way or the other anymore.
The Catholic Church turned me off years ago.



I just don't understand blind faith.....at all.
Confused
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,560 • Replies: 36
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neologist
 
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Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:01 pm
What many preachers fail to tell their flocks is Satan is the "ruler of this world" (John 14:30) When something terrible happens, it is not God's fault; it is the result of Satan's having been giving authority over the earth for a period of time. There are many scriptural references to this, but perhaps the one most familiar is the time when Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. (See Luke 4: 5-8) He could not have done this if they were not his.

But Satan's dominion is not permanent. If you carefully study the bible, you will learn how God has promised to restore the earth to the conditions promised to Adam and Eve. (See Isaiah 45:18) It is then that "the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:11)
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happycat
 
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Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:09 pm
Thanks neologist.
My agnosticism extends to belief in Satan also.

But, if the preachers aren't telling the whole story to their flocks, then the various flocks are flying on blind faith.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:18 pm
happycat wrote:
Thanks neologist.
My agnosticism extends to belief in Satan also.

But, if the preachers aren't telling the whole story to their flocks, then the various flocks are flying on blind faith.
Revelation chapters 17 and 18 gives a fitting description of the fall of religion. It is a time when, according to Zechariah, those ". . . prophets will become ashamed . . ." And will try to hide their "official garments". (Zechariah 13:4)
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happycat
 
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Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 01:30 pm
Yeah well, I don't see that happening any time soon. There's too much money to be made off the flock.

I seriously believe that many preachers are only in it because they don't have any other talent or profession.

I think the fall of religion is happening because people are starting to realize that most the world's troubles are religion based.
It's a serious problem when children are born, grow up and die in a religious war that never seems to end.

jmo
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Sep, 2007 02:01 pm
happycat wrote:
Yeah well, I don't see that happening any time soon. There's too much money to be made off the flock.

I seriously believe that many preachers are only in it because they don't have any other talent or profession.

I think the fall of religion is happening because people are starting to realize that most the world's troubles are religion based.
It's a serious problem when children are born, grow up and die in a religious war that never seems to end.

jmo
I think you have focused on the reason.
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hankarin
 
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Reply Sun 9 Sep, 2007 07:38 pm
Yeah well, I don't see that happening any time soon.
Most people inside and outside of religion DON'T SEE it happening sometime soon, and they WON'T. Since God initiates the action, it will be sudden, surprising, shocking, not (humanly) forseeable or gradual. You will find this in the Bible prophecy of Revelation 17:16, 17. That human institutionns such as big business and government are later seen mourning the situation, indicates that it was not there intent to initate the action against religion. (Revelation 18:9-19) Notice though that not everyone is mourning. (Revelation 18:20) These are aware of what is needed on their part. (Revelation 14:6, 7; 18:4, 5) These will have a prospect for a better life afterward. (Revelation 7:9, 15; Psalm 37:9-11, 29 & 34)
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averner
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 05:14 pm
I believe math is god. God's creation, in turn, is reality, AKA Science. If you want to put it in the hands of God, give it to the Scientists. The Scientists are the Hands of God. I have faith in the laws of Math. I also have faith in the laws of Science when the Holy Math is applied to them.
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hankarin
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 05:48 pm
I believe math is god.
Who created math?
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happycat
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 05:49 pm
Re: I believe math is god.
hankarin wrote:
Who created math?


man
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hankarin
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 05:51 pm
man
Interesting theory. Do you have some scientific evidence to back it up?
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averner
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 06:02 pm
Math was always there, it is the reality behind the reality (the math behind the science), it is God. It was even there before the universe, because all laws of physics are based on math. Math includes statistics and random numbers, so even quantum physics is described by math, regardless of whether it is random.

Man just discovered math.

The laws of math are such that if there was another sentient organism other than human (not saying if there is or isnt) which desired to see reality in a precise manner, it would discover the same laws of math. Math is math regardless of what symbols you use to represent numbers and operations, and whether you use a binary, decimal, hexadecimal, etc. system.


Do I need scientific evidence? All science is BASED on math. It is science which needs a grounding in math to even function. Before math, science was alchemy and mysticism.
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happycat
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 06:03 pm
Indians

http://www.physorg.com/news106238636.html
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averner
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 06:40 pm
Indeed, that serves as proof of the universality of math..
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hankarin
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 08:33 pm
The laws of math
Laws imply a law-giver, so who gave man the laws of math?
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averner
 
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Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 11:39 pm
They are called "laws" by convention - they have nothing to do with the ones in a court of law. Call them what you wish, for man found them himself. For example, Newton's Law: did things not continue in motion once they were set in motion until acted upon by an outside force before Newton's time? They did, of course. We can call them rules, or even giptygook if you want. Heck, I don't think they were called "laws" in China, even though China was one of the most advanced civilizations up until the Industrial Revolution...
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 01:59 am
God revealed his name to the Hebrews using the four letters transliterated as YHWH, meaning "He who causes to become". The most common English pronunciation is Jehovah. The action implied by this name indicates volition and purpose, characteristics not apparent by the construct of mathematics as a language or tool.

Mathematics may have universal application, but it does not do anything. Neither does it intend anything.
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happycat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 04:32 am
Re: The laws of math
hankarin wrote:
Laws imply a law-giver, so who gave man the laws of math?


That's a really silly question. You're grabbing at straws now.
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averner
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 05:13 am
Does not "do"? That even moreso makes it God! It simply creates physics BY THE VERY FACT THAT IT EXISTS, which in turn sets the world in motion and causes what we see today. As for why the physical constants are such that the world is inhabitable - we simply haven't seen the uninhabitable ones yet! There are many more! As I said before, it's not reality itself, it is the reality behind the reality.
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happycat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 05:15 am
averner wrote:
Does not "do"? That even moreso makes it God! It simply creates physics BY THE VERY FACT THAT IT EXISTS, which in turn sets the world in motion and causes what we see today. As I said before, it's not reality itself, it is the reality behind the reality.


nah.
more straws
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