PBS Program - NOVA - "Fire Wars"

Fishin
Fishin, that great NOVA film was a repeat of one done over a year ago. Based on what was learned in the 2000 fire where so many firefighters died, many policies were changed to protect the lives of those on the fire lines.

New policies were proposed, some of which are still under debate, regarding clearing excess forest growth to reduce fire fuel and improve the health of forest. Because the Bush administration is behind the clearing, environmentalist organizations are suspicious that it will lead to excessive clear cutting by wood companies.

In my opinion, there is merit in the controlled cutting proposal but it is at risk of abuse by commercial interests.

In New Mexico, the state is already following many of the new policies and thinning out too dense forest areas. In the fires in this state during the last two years, this practice has helped to better control fires, save property and lives.

The recent fire in the Bosque (forest) near my home has started an emergency project to thin out the trees and the underbrush to reduce the fire fuel hazard and to provide better access to the areas by fire fighters.

The answer to your question will take decades to learn if we are finally doing the right thing. But nothing else tried has worked so another solution is being followed.

----------BumbleBeeBoogie

I understand the environmental concrens and agree with them to some extent. I don't want any clear cutting of the forests either. Letting corporations loose in the National Parks probably wouldn't be the best of ideas.

We do pay a lot of money out every year topiut fires out though. Maybe we could hire some loggers to work for the NPS and let them do the cutting and bring the wood out of the forest and then sell it to the lumber companies? The Fire Service, with the aid of some NPS forestry specialists, could survey the areas and mark which trees should come down and then the loggers could go in behind them and do the cutting.

We'd end up with the same number of people on the payroll and could re-coup some $$ back by selling the timber and that could be used to further improve our parks.

Maybe that's all to simplistic but it doesn't seem unreasonable to study and develop.

dang..saw it was going to watch it, missed it.

I however was previously aware of the controlled clearing effect and feel basically the same way....
there could be so many great advantages to having it done more regulatory or controlled but, you open up to abuse and disregard of policy as well as economical gain above the plight of the envronment.
So, its one of those double edged swords that Im still sitting on the edge of the blade on.
My thoughts have been, if under the correct regulation where different agencies were the authority of projects/programs, it could be worked out. I have issues still but, perhaps a place to start is at least something.

Fishin':

Perhaps Bush could cut his Imperialistic Attack to take over Iraq for Hallibutrton and Bechtel, just for a week. That would give one billion dollars to the clearing effort to be done by people who actually want to stop fires and help the environment ... not clear cut and destroy for fun and profit!!

Anon

I'm for cleaning up the undergrowth and getting rid of most of the "pecker poles" -- sort of the way the native Americans used to do. They burned on a regular basis, they cleared the forests and trimmed up the tree branches so that they could ride horses through. There are some evergreen cones, as I'm sure you saw on the TV show, that NEED to be heated in a fire before they can sprout.

It's a very interesting idea you're fielding. I'd much rather see some use come from the clearing than what is happening now, where it's all going to waste and/or up in smoke. Much less detrimental to the wildlife as well. Horse-logging would be one way to protect the environment, since you don't need to make the huge roads. I suppose the clearing is ripe for abuse, but good grief, I'd think we'd be able to tell if somebody was cutting a bunch of big logs. Anyway, most saw mills are set to work on one size of tree. Just make sure that they can't handle anything bigger than... whatever... and there won't be too much 'cause for abuse. I just came back from town and saw yet another long freeway burn that went into the tall trees. No doubt some fool threw out a burning cigarette. Everything is dry as tinder. It is pretty darn scary out here in the wild west.

This touches on another possible benefit. During the show they were discussing how much CO and CO2 were released from these forests when there is a fire and what the impact of that might be on overall greenhouse gas levels and global warming, etc.. Burning, whether in wildfires or controlled burns, releases those gases into the atmosphere and the forests of North America are supposedly one of the worlds largest carbon sinks. They tested a burn on 2,000 acres in Alaska and the carbon released was huge!

We should be able to come up with a better use for that wood that simply burning it (or letting it burn..). There's gotta be a better way.

After the "energy crises", California has built several energy plants which actually burn this "biomass" for fuel and creates energy. All the stuff on the ground, dead trees, trimmings, etc. is considered "biomass". I'm not sure if they filter the smoke exhaust because of the omissions ... I'll have to look.

http://www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=1774

Anon

The caveat is that underbrush is good for wildlife... birds & small mammals plus a host of insects use it for cover, for food, for nests. There has to be a middle ground. You don't want to strip the forests back to trees & dirt, but any forest holder knows you have to clear out most of the dead wood or after a while you can't even walk through. We don't have much land but we leave big snags for the woodpeckers, plenty of living huckleberries, salal and other shrubs and at least one pile of brush per acre for critters. It's a huge job to clean up the woods.

I should add that there are tons of wildfire websites out there, from the realtime fires of the west to safety for your home.

Here's a good one with amazing tips for the home owner that was recently recommended in the newspaper:

Fire Wise from the National Wildland/Urban Interface Fire Program

Piffka:

That is very true. The Republican solution is always to skin it to the ground, where if environmental folk direct it, there will be some left!!

Anon

I'd love to agree with you, Anon, being an environmentalist and all, and I mostly do, but I've been taken aback by some of the environmentalist tacks which advocate not removing a thing. There is a happy middle ground, I hope. We have to admit that forest fires will happen. If allowed to burn naturally they'd probably do fine, but since we're in the un-natural condition of so much junk on the ground from years of fire suppression... it's a different problem.

I've listened to my friends who live in the woods of eastern Washington. They make part of their living from professional pack trips, part from horse-logging and part of it from fighting fires. They're on the ground all year. They own or lease a few thousand acres and have permits to take people into the Okanogan highlands. They have no interest in wrecking the woods and a huge interest in making it as great as possible, because who wants to go on a pack trip through a burnt-out forest? My friends have explained to me what the government agencies are doing, how the dead & dried stuff could be utilized instead of being left in monstrous piles. It's a fire waiting to happen. It's really scary to look at all that fuel, sometimes piled up against the trees, dried & waiting, when the forests are tinder-dry, it's 85-90 degrees and there's not a hint of rain.

I hate to see a burned-up woods. It is just too depressing. A fast-moving fire will scorch a forest but won't do horrible damage to the big trees unless there is a lot of undergrowth or piles of stuff left on the ground to burn. A good fire whooshes through and whooshes right back out again. It refreshes the soil and there'll be new growth by the next season.

Piffka:

You've misunderstood me I guess. I'm for substantial clearing and forest maintenance. I believe I mentioned the biomass energy plants, which I think are an amazing idea. It kills two birds with one stone ... it gets all the incindiary forest refuge off the forest floor, and it is used for energy generation. I'm not too sure where you got the idea I didn't think it should be cleaned up, because my position is just the opposite.

My problem is with concerns like tha Texas outfit that performed a hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber here in California, and started clear cutting 2000 years old redwoods. They continued to cut in the face of a court stop order. That winter, 100 homes below the clear cut are were mowed down by mud flows which endangered entire communities.

I'd rather see these forests burnt down around the cutters taking the cutters with them, rather than have them clear cut!! At least the regrowth would be possible then, and the large trees would survive anyway!!

Anon

Piffka:

By the way, Bushes "Healthy Forest" bulloney is nothing but a play to get the destroyers in the forest. Once they're in. you'll never get them out until everything is leveled!!

I'd rather see it burn for the reasons mentioned above!!

Anon

Oh, I see, I did misunderstand and we do totally agree. My apologies, I can only say I wasn't reading closely enough.

There are enough trees that I think we should respect all the giants and let them stand until they topple and become nurse logs.

What an awful story about the Texas outfit cutting even when ordered not to. Grrrrrrrrrrr. Why does it seem like it's always Texas? I am not a Bush fan and assume that anything he advocates is wrong-headed... but that's just me.

Piffka:

No problem!

Yea, I'm really getting to hate Texas! If we're lucky, the terrorists will turn the whole state into a huge nuclear hole while Bush is there. At least that would be a start!!

Talk about killing two birds with one stone!!

Anon

Now calm down... let's not go that far! Tartarin is from Texas, so is Goaway, Edgar Blythe and several more a2kers whose names don't come immediately to mind. I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate being obliviated.

Piffka:

So we send in extraction force and pull them out

Anon

Sounds like dentistry, Anon. Anyway, if your scenario were to happen, everyone would start feeling sorry for Texas. I don't think I could take it.

OK, I take it back ...

Anon

There you go.... let's just send them a pestilence of fleas or something.