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Science ends in meaninglessness

 
 
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 07:54 pm
Colin leslie dean claims all views end in meaninglessness ie self contradiction

as an example of his claim he shows that even science ends in meaninglessness

Edit [Moderator]: Link removed

"Absurdities or meaninglessness or irrationality is no hindrance [sic] to something being 'true' rationality, or, Freedom from contradiction or paradox is not a necessary an/or sufficient condition for 'truth': mathematics and science examples"



Quote:
they collapse into absurdity i.e. are self-contradictory or paradoxical such as those in quantum mechanics- just as there is in mathematics. Heisenberg notes that " the strangest experience of those years was that the paradoxes of quantum theory did not disappear during this process of clarification; on the contrary they have become even more marked and exciting."

In regard to the paradoxes and contradictions of quantum theory Wick state the orthodox view when he says "here my opinion of the orthodox quantum mechanics, like Bohr, comes down to the meaning of words. "Classical" and "complementarity", insult and commendation, are euphemisms; the belief concealed is that Nature has been found in a contradiction. But quantum physicists are not simpletons. In their hearts they know such a claim is philosophically unacceptable and would be rejected in other sciences."
Wick notes " I believe orthodox quantum theorists [slates] reason, consciously or unconsciously, something like this. The microscopic world exhibits paradoxes or contradictions and this fact is reflected in the best theory describing it."


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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,293 • Replies: 23
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 07:57 pm
So?
0 Replies
 
nightrider
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 08:21 pm
Quote:
so


Colin leslie dean claims all views end in meaninglessness ie self contradiction

an example is his claim science ends in meaninglessness
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 08:32 pm
But the journey to meaninglessness has meaning :wink:
0 Replies
 
nightrider
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 08:48 pm
Quote:
But the journey to meaninglessness has meaning

good point
like the Buddhists say the the path is the gaol
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 10:52 pm
I agree with you all. And Colin.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 05:11 am
Quote:
Wick notes ? I believe orthodox quantum theorists [slates] reason, consciously or unconsciously, something like this. The microscopic world exhibits paradoxes or contradictions and this fact is reflected in the best theory describing it.?


Dean(whoever the hell he is) needs more familiarity with QM. Its a statistical inference supported by real world data , and by being so, actually works in appliances . Course not all the time all in the same place , but thats hardly meaninglessness. Perhaps Dean flunked advanced placement math and holds a grudge. Lots of philosophers really suck at science.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 05:25 am
Seems all I can find about CLD is that hes pushing some book on "everything is meaninglessness". If thats the case, why did he bother writing about it?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 05:28 am
COLIN LESLIE DEAN DOES NOT EXIST
Imbued with his compelling logic, I conclude that he does not even exist and whatever is attributed to him is just an illusion.
0 Replies
 
nightrider
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 12:15 pm
Quote:
Dean(whoever the hell he is) needs more familiarity with QM. Its a statistical inference supported by real world data , and by being so, actually works in appliances . Course not all the time all in the same place , but thats hardly meaninglessness. Perhaps Dean flunked advanced placement math and holds a grudge. Lots of philosophers really suck at science.

but even though it works it is meaningless as it it is self contradictory
as wick says

Quote:
Wick notes ? I believe orthodox quantum theorists [slates] reason, consciously or unconsciously, something like this. The microscopic world exhibits paradoxes or contradictions and this fact is reflected in the best theory describing it.?

any scientist worth his tenure would want to know why it works when logically it cant be true
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 03:41 pm
nightrider wrote:
any scientist worth his tenure would want to know why it works when logically it cant be true


You've got it exactly backwards. Any scientist worth his tenure would want to know why we claim it logically impossible when it works. Unlike philosophers, apparently, scientists who encounter a conflict between theory and reality concede to reality. I wonder what it would take for philosophers to do the same.

Dean, has your discovery that science ends in meaningless affected your reliance on science? Have you become less trusting of science's ability to connect you to the internet, keep your automobile running, or help treat medical problems?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 03:43 pm
nightrider, aka ?
Quote:
scientist worth his tenure [CODE]. Theres one of your problems, most scientists work in the private sector where we expect results.. Questions that only result in more and deeper questions are relegated to the theoretical, not the applied.

but even though it works it is meaningless as it it is self contradictory
Quote:
. Whatever, Ive got some science to do., and Im sure that all this meaningless wont interfere with results. Does Dean (or you, since I assume you are he) have anything relevant or valuable to say about placer deposits of TiO2 in nonmarine sediments?
0 Replies
 
nightrider
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 03:46 pm
Quote:
You've got it exactly backwards. Any scientist worth his tenure would want to know why we claim it logically impossible when it works.

so are you now going to investigate that
now that dean has pointed it out to you that science is logically meaningless

Quote:
Unlike philosophers, apparently, scientists who encounter a conflict between theory and reality concede to reality

how can you conceed to reality when wick and dean have shown by your science it is contradictory
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 03:59 pm
Quote:
how can you conceed to reality when wick and dean have shown by your science it is contradictory
. And we have asserted that Wick and Dean are marginalized.
The very statistical improbability of a ground state is what makes QM fun bunkie.
0 Replies
 
nightrider
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 04:08 pm
Quote:
And we have asserted that Wick and Dean are marginalized.
The very statistical improbability of a ground state is what makes QM fun bunkie.


is heisenberg marginalized


Quote:
Heisenberg notes that " the strangest experience of those years was that the paradoxes of quantum theory did not disappear during this process of clarification; on the contrary they have become even more marked and exciting."


ad wick is speaking for orthodox QM theorists- not the marginalised

Quote:
In regard to the paradoxes and contradictions of quantum theory Wick state the orthodox view when he says "here my opinion of the orthodox quantum mechanics, like Bohr, comes down to the meaning of words. "Classical" and "complementarity", insult and commendation, are euphemisms; the belief concealed is that Nature has been found in a contradiction. But quantum physicists are not simpletons. In their hearts they know such a claim is philosophically unacceptable and would be rejected in other sciences."
Wick notes " I believe orthodox quantum theorists [slates] reason, consciously or unconsciously, something like this. The microscopic world exhibits paradoxes or contradictions and this fact is reflected in the best theory describing it."
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 04:14 pm
nightrider wrote:
so are you now going to investigate that
now that dean has pointed it out to you that science is logically meaningless


Was that a yes or a no, Dean? Has your discovery that science is logically meaningless affected your reliance on science to connect you to the internet, keep your automobile running, and help treat medical problems?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 04:26 pm
Quote:
Heisenberg notes that ? the strangest experience of those years was that the paradoxes of quantum theory did not disappear during this process of clarification; on the contrary they have become even more marked and exciting.?
and Heisenberg has treated this how? Mathematically , statistically. This was the basis for "God does not play dice with the Universe" and caused Einstein, on his dotage , to realize that this was the dumbest point of his life. Meaningless? far from it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 04:27 pm
In a Universe governed by laws, whats the harm in trying to push back the darkness that Dean tries to assert.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 04:50 pm
Wick.

Dean.



WickandDean.





Wickenden.







Wikkandom.




That's it, boys, he's just sellin' candles.
0 Replies
 
nightrider
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 08:08 pm
Quote:
In a Universe governed by laws, whats the harm in trying to push back the darkness that Dean tries to assert.

dean by pointing out that your science is meaningless is trying to take you from your darkness -in believing your logic and language
it is your logic and language which keeps you in the dark
if you where not so bewitched by the magic of science-ie it works- then you would realise the explantions behind the magic are meaningless -this realisation would start the process of coming out of the dark into the light

as long as you are stuck with
but
" it works how do you deal with that"
you will stay in the dark forever
0 Replies
 
 

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