vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Aug, 2007 08:35 pm
Quote:
I believe in absolute truth, not relative truth.


Kate, there is a passage in Romans somewhere, where Paul says words to the effect of "One man believes it is wrong to eat meat, and for him it is wrong, while another believes it is okay to eat meat, and for him it is okay."
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 06:59 am
echi wrote:
I don't understand, neo. Do you respect your doubts? Do you give them full consideration?
Doubts; Uncertainties; Unanswered questions; They all fit into the same category right?

When we get into an automobile, we do so with the understanding that we might have an accident. Yet we drive anyway because we have faith in our driving skills, auto maintenance, etc. My faith exceeds that.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 07:04 am
vikorr wrote:
Quote:
I believe in absolute truth, not relative truth.


Kate, there is a passage in Romans somewhere, where Paul says words to the effect of "One man believes it is wrong to eat meat, and for him it is wrong, while another believes it is okay to eat meat, and for him it is okay."


And you misunderstand the point of the passage.

Paul isn't arguing for relative truth.

He states that it is ok for either of them to eat.

But since one believes it is not, then the other should, out of deference for his brother's conscience, not put a stumblingblock before him.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 07:10 am
vikorr wrote:
Quote:
I believe in absolute truth, not relative truth.


Kate, there is a passage in Romans somewhere, where Paul says words to the effect of "One man believes it is wrong to eat meat, and for him it is wrong, while another believes it is okay to eat meat, and for him it is okay."
That's not the same thing. Paul was speaking about meat sacrificed to idols. He reasoned that, since the idols were nothing, it would not be wrong for a Christian to eat such meat. But some Christians, especially newly converted ones, might be disturbed by the practice nevertheless. He cautioned his brothers not to stumble such ones by insisting on their right to eat such meat.

In my case, although it is not improper for me to partake of alcoholic beverages, I never do so in the presence of any who might abhor such practice because of former alcoholism or just plain misunderstanding of the scriptures.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 07:12 am
Mornin' RL. I was just going to make coffee, Want some?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 07:58 am
Thanks.

Donut for you?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Aug, 2007 10:08 pm
Naw, I'm on the Atkins.

Thanks, anyway.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2007 12:12 pm
neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
I don't understand, neo. Do you respect your doubts? Do you give them full consideration?
Doubts; Uncertainties; Unanswered questions; They all fit into the same category right?

When we get into an automobile, we do so with the understanding that we might have an accident. Yet we drive anyway because we have faith in our driving skills, auto maintenance, etc. My faith exceeds that.

Your religious faith exceeds your faith in auto safety -- So what? You haven't addressed the question whether you respect your doubts regarding religion. Perhaps you could give an example of a doubt you have had and then demonstrate the method you used to overcome it.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2007 12:13 pm
how do you like the new avatar?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 08:42 am
echi wrote:
how do you like the new avatar?
A good choice.
echi wrote:
neologist wrote:
echi wrote:
I don't understand, neo. Do you respect your doubts? Do you give them full consideration?
Doubts; Uncertainties; Unanswered questions; They all fit into the same category right?

When we get into an automobile, we do so with the understanding that we might have an accident. Yet we drive anyway because we have faith in our driving skills, auto maintenance, etc. My faith exceeds that.

Your religious faith exceeds your faith in auto safety -- So what? You haven't addressed the question whether you respect your doubts regarding religion. Perhaps you could give an example of a doubt you have had and then demonstrate the method you used to overcome it.
This is probably a good point to digress into another thread. One doubt or question I had in particular is the issue of foreknowledge and free will as it relates to the timing of Satan's rebellion. For if Adam and Eve had brought forth children before sinning, our world situation could be entirely different today. But, before I go into my reasoning on this issue, I must ask: Can you see what I mean?
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 12:41 pm
neologist wrote:
. . . One doubt or question I had in particular is the issue of foreknowledge and free will as it relates to the timing of Satan's rebellion. For if Adam and Eve had brought forth children before sinning, our world situation could be entirely different today. But, before I go into my reasoning on this issue, I must ask: Can you see what I mean?
No, I don't get it. Please explain.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 01:38 pm
According to Truth which I made specific reference to in my first post, and I do so below, spiritual truth cannot be understood through either circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence because there is no circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence for spiritual truth. Spiritual truth would need to be defined within the following context:
Quote:
Most religious traditions have a body of doctrine that adherents of that religion view as truth. This may take the form of a creed or catechism, it may refer to a book such as the Bible or the Koran, or it may be an unwritten code shared by believers. Unlike scientific truth or observed truth, religious truth often makes the claim of being either revealed or inspired by God.

When there is a clash between religious truth and scientific truth, various methods have been used to reconcile the two. During the Middle Ages, for example, there was a conflict between Roman Catholic dogma on the one hand and an emerging body of scientific knowledge on the other. Sometimes the established church sought to suppress scientific truth, as in the case of Galileo, but often the two truths were allowed to coexist, which led to the doctrine of the two truths. According to this compromise, there is a lesser truth, scientific truth, which holds that the earth orbits the sun, and a greater truth, religious truth, that holds that the earth is the fixed center of the universe. According to the doctrine of the two truths, these two truths were both true in their own sphere. [47][48] In the 20th Century, there were similar attempts to explain apparent conflicts between religious truth and scientific truth, especially where the age of the earth, the historicity of a universal flood, and the evolution of species were concerned. The conflict between religious truth and scientific truth continues in the 21st Century.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 01:57 pm
Chum-

Check out my latest post on the ID thread on S and M.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 03:17 pm
Chumly wrote:
. . . spiritual truth cannot be understood through either circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence because there is no circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence for spiritual truth.

I don't follow, Chumly. As I understand, circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence is the only sort of evidence that does exist for spiritual truth.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 03:35 pm
Wiki wrote:
Circumstantial evidence are unrelated facts that, when considered together, can be used to infer a conclusion about something unknown. Circumstantial evidence is usually a theory, supported by a significant quantity of corroborating evidence.
So given circumstantial evidence in the rational / legalistic sense I cannot think of any court in the land / logician that would decide in favor of the existence of religious truth based on circumstantial evendence.
Wiki wrote:
Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, such as evidence-based medicine, which are types of formal accounts. Some anecdotal evidence does not qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy and is sometimes informally referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc. Compare with hasty generalization). Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily typical; statistical evidence can more accurately determine how typical something is.
So given anecdotal evidence in the rational / legalistic sense I cannot think of any court in the land / logician that would decide in favor of the existence of religious truth based on hearsay.

Religious truth is simply based on the logical fallacy
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 04:12 pm
Chumly wrote:
. . . spiritual truth cannot be understood through either circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence because there is no circumstantial and/or anecdotal evidence for spiritual truth.

Okay -- I think I got it now. There is no circumstantial or anecdotal evidence for spiritual truth because neither is sufficient to satisfy any reasonable truth standard. How's that?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 04:22 pm
I am no expert on the nature of truth, but if you are willing to accept the Wiki delineations of truth then yup I agree with you, still it can be interesting to see how religionists use the word.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 04:35 pm
Oh, no you don't -- I agree with you!
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Sep, 2007 04:45 pm
Funny!
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2007 03:41 pm
Chumly wrote:
. . . I cannot think . . .
Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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