Christopher Hitchens dared say what he thought re Bob Hope

Maybe he wasn't funny to me, but I never said I didn't like the guy.

I don't think he was THAT selfless for going overseas and entertaining the troops. There were plenty of people, especially curvy women, who had to hall their keester's over there with him. Not to mention the cadres of writers and stage hands. Bob Hope was not the only entertainer to put "his ass on the line" by heading overseas during war. He was just very good at getting the air-time to let "the American people" know he was over there. Part of being a star means you project a persona, and I'm sure underneath it all, Mr. Hope had the kind of monster-eago it takes to succeed in the business.

Hope was there for decades. No one else came close.

Well, he did have the staying power, that cannot be denied, which attests to the bland taste of the mainstream. Give me Lenny Bruce, anyday.

I don't mind that some folks did not care for Hope. I just don't see putting him down. What's the good in it?
Sure, Lenny Bruce is more to my personal taste. So are a hundred other comedians. To me this sort of thread is sort of like kicking someone when they're down, is all.

edgarblythe- I'm with you. For the life of me I can't understand some of the mean spiritedness that I have seen in this thread. Good grief, the man's dead. Let him rest in peace!

my responses appear to be mean-spirited, but to me they are telling it like it is. he was a very, very public figure, who like other public figures are scrutinized. my not liking bob hope for his humor or his patriotism in the face of a time when it as being questioned is my own business. i am not saying anything about bob hope the man behind the mask. i wholeheartedly believe he is not only resting in peace, but he couldn't give a s*** about what i have to say about him.

Phoenix -- It's not as though this thread's title suggested that it would be about "Bob's dead, let him rest in peace!" but rather that it would be about contrarian views of Bob Hope. Sometimes these contrarian views, though they may seem mean-spirited, actually carry some interesting truths about ourselves and our society. He was indeed a public figure -- something he chose to be. Maybe a new thread: "Good thoughts about Bob Hope"? Doubt Bob will read either one...

What purpose can it serve to rake him over now? Who are we trying to impress?

These folks are not trying to impress anyone. They are giving their opinions.
Many of the major obituaries - in major newspapers - now include some mention of public opinion engendered by the person's work or actions, although the obituary itself is rarely directly critical. I haven't read about Bob Hope's death except here, so I don't know about the content of all the writing about him.

Bob Hope may well have had criticism attached to his trips/shows overseas at the time he did them.

For me, people are welcome to express opinions of his long term fame for his long term entertaining effort. When else could we comment on this? Ten years ago, or ten years from now? This isn't a formal funeral or obituary situation.

I found him slightly funnier than many other stand up comedians of the forties and fifties., which isn't saying a lot. I thought it was nice that he went overseas to entertain the troops. I think he probably did get professional benefits out of that, and perhaps a certain self imaging, but I don't mind that he did. I can see that plenty of people loved him for the visits. Not all of us have to though.

Someone said earlier than she or he heard of soldiers not liking being in the audience...which I envision being true for some in the Vietnam conflict. That makes me wonder if the soldiers "had" to go be entertained, by him or anyone.

I don't think this question is inappropriate for an a2k thread, and the title does indicate the content.

But Edgar -- Come to that, why debate the founders, their roles in developing and Constitution, their motives, their backgrounds, their flaws? Because they give us insight into ourselves and our social history, among other reasons. Bob Hope represented a kind of humor, entertainment, and an idea of public service of a particular era. Looking back on it -- its glories and its flaws, tells us a lot about ourselves and how we've changed. I think that's important stuff, particularly right now when we've wound up with a society so many of us think has deterioriated and is in danger. We take measure of ourselves all the time -- and we should, don't you think?

Bob Hope was like a pair of old shoes to me. Not very snazzy, but didn't pinch the toes either.

Perhaps some people thought his jokes were clever; I think more people appreciated the chutzpah it took to face audiences with material as bad as his. And the fact that he survived professionally for all those years means something.

I understand the sentiment of not wishing to malign the dead, although I don't see what harm it does either. Certainly Bob heard it all in his very long lifetime.

However, if it is considered more sporting to give negative opinions only about unfunny comedians who are currently working, I am prepared to weigh in with fresh nominations.

Well, then we just have to disagree.

I think it is interesting, many of us talking now are about the same age (don't know your age, GreyFan) and we saw the same times.

I don't see a way to put a good face on doing this to a man who has just died. If he were a war criminal or mass murderer, well, of course. All Hope did was try to entertain and to bring a bit of home to our troops overseas. It's okay to not like him, but it's not decent to do him this way. It outrages my sense of fair play.

Osso -- I thought the same thing as I was posting, above. One's tastes change constantly, as does one's ability to challenge old icons including one's own favorites! Bob Hope was part of the wallpaper of my past, and it's interesting now to see him in context, knowing more about humor, about the USO and our military, about the trajectory of his life, accumulation of wealth, foibles, etc. etc.

There's a very old lady in our family, frail and out of it now, a second cousin of our mother's. She and I discovered each in the last decade of her life and visited and corresponded. She'd been known in the family as a "spinster," a little literal and dull, unadventurous, tucked into the bottom of the table during festivities. In fact she had a very lively life, an interesting lover, a job which absorbed her, was widely read, independent. And a whole sector of the family has written her off as the dull spinster. It happens that way. We write history in the same narrow-minded way, which is why we have to revisit it constantly with more mature, open minds, and look for the details we missed. I don't believe in either lionization or swift rejection of those who've "gone on ahead."

OK, you are welcome to your outrage.

I have a peculiar background. Bob Hope's house is a few doors down from where my parents built a house just before I was born. They left because my dad joined the Army Air Force. He did some courageous things. Bob Hope is not an icon to me, not that he wasn't courageous, but that I hold him in a context perhaps different than yours. I was a Hollywood child and have dealt with many many celebrities, who are just people to me, although often grand.

I am not speaking, and others here are not speaking, at his funeral ceremonie(s). We are just talking.

If people raked over people close to me at a time near their death, I would be outraged too, emotionally. But death is a time when people review lives and start to put them in context. This happens over and over. The summaries change and revamp and change again. I am reading a book now by Sebastian Faulks on three men in the twentieth century who died young and fairly famous, with his thoughtful biographical takes on them, that weren't so known at the time of their deaths.

We are discussing the passing of a long time public figure.

When would you say it would be ok for us to talk about this?

I did not call him an icon. I have not really told what I thought about the man. I only said that I thought he ought to get settled in the ground with a good send off. Something we all would like to have.

I cheerfully admit to calling him an icon, and that you didn't, Edgar.

And I admit I can see being on your pov on this.

But, hey, I'm not, on this one.

Hey Ossobuco

I am a mere lad of 51. I don't know how that stacks up against you all, but there it is.

I can respect edgar's feelings on the subject, and I don't have any particular ax to grind concerning Bob Hope, but as far as I'm concerned, if someone is inclined to malign me at any time, living or dead, they can go ahead and do it. I suspect it will bother me more during the living years.

I do not anticipate, although one can never be sure about these things, that I will ever have any awareness of what kind of send off I got.