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SORRY I GOT YOUR "WHALE RECIPES" THREAD LOCKED UP CJ

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2007 04:37 pm
Quote:
I can't find a reason why everybody seems to think that whale hunting is such a crime aginst nature.


Weve reduced the genetic diversity of a number of whale species from hunting. Some whale species may not recover at all , due to inbreeding from too small a worldwide population Why transfer this hunting pressure to a species that was , heretofore totally unhunted just because it was too small. Youre trying to cover your poor logic with even more poor logic.

Quote:

[Post] Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject:
farmerman wrote:
COOLWHIP, let us work on our reading comprehension skills. Nowhere did I say that minkes are nearing extinction. I said other species are. Also, your numbers of minkes in the world is low .


Cj didn't say anything about any particular spacies, but I thought it was
implyed that it was the mink whale because it is the only whale hunted comercially (as well as for "research").


Actually this is wrong. Finbacks in general are hunted for "research" as are seis and even the Humpback has been lisyted as a traget species by the Japanese (Do you not notice that every web site that discusses the illegal whaling uses quotes around the wrod "Research". My point WAS that such research is into ways to cook a whale.

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Can you please stop claiming that "research has shown" when taking wild
guesses?
My only wild guess was that Commercial companies are establishing the country's entrance into whaling, not that research has shown that minkes are getting smaller. The pygmy minke not included (ITs SPELLED MINKES, NOT MINKS). They are called MINK _EEE whale.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2007 05:04 pm
Quote:
Weve reduced the genetic diversity of a number of whale species from hunting. Some whale species may not recover at all , due to inbreeding from too small a worldwide population Why transfer this hunting pressure to a species that was , heretofore totally unhunted just because it was too small. Youre trying to cover your poor logic with even more poor logic.


Quote:
Cultural Selection and Genetic Diversity in Matrilineal Whales

Hal Whitehead

Low diversities of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) have recently been found in four species of matrilineal whale. No satisfactory explanation for this apparent anomaly has been previously suggested. Culture seems to be an important part of the lives of matrilineal whales. The selection of matrilineally transmitted cultural traits, upon which neutral mtDNA alleles "hitchhike," has the potential to strongly reduce genetic variation. Thus, in contrast to other nonhuman mammals, culture may be an important evolutionary force for the matrilineal whales.

Department of Biology, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3H 4J1. E-mail: [email protected]


Which would suggest that whale hunting may not be the only contributor to a lack of genetic variaton. As for my poor logic; I'd like you to contibute some sources for your rantings.



Quote:
Quote:
Cj didn't say anything about any particular spacies, but I thought it was
implyed that it was the mink whale because it is the only whale hunted comercially (as well as for "research").
Actually this is wrong. Finbacks in general are hunted for "research" as are seis and even the Humpback has been listed as a target species by the Japanese (Do you not notice that every web site that discusses the illegal whaling uses quotes around the wrod "Research". My point WAS that such research is into ways to cook a whale.



I'd like to focus on the whales being hunted legally for the moment.


Quote:
Studies have shown that the Japanese, Norwegians, Icelanders, and any other pro whaling nation are just a bunch of individual companies whove bullied their govts to buy into the line-of- crap that whales need to be "harvested".


Quote:
My only wild guess was that Commercial companies are establishing the country's entrance into whaling, not that research has shown that minkes are getting smaller. The pygmy minke not included


I would be grateful if you refrained from using "studies have shown" as a figure of speech.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2007 05:23 pm
This link claims that whale population is too low to continue comercial hunting. However, it does not use any of you arguments fm. Quite the contrary:

Quote:
A small population tends to weed out all of its genetic differences through inbreeding. A large population, by contrast, should have a lot more genetic variation. Our study shows that humpback whales today actually have about 10 times more genetic variation than would be expected from the whaling logbook estimates. That tells us that, sometime in the past, the population of humpbacks was pretty big -- and in fact our calculation for the North Atlantic suggests that the historic size of that population was about 240,000 animals.


This is why I wanted some citations for your rantings, fm.

Quote:
"In light of our findings," Roman and Palumbi concluded, "current populations of humpback or fin whales are far from harvestable. Minke whales are closer to genetically defined population limits, and hunting decisions regarding them must be based on other data."


Regarding minke whales, which were the only whales I've been interested in all along, "hunting decisions regarding them must be based on other data.". Can you give me some data that would suggest that hunting minke whales is wrong?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 05:08 am
Quote:
Our study shows that humpback whales today actually have about 10 times more genetic variation than would be expected from the whaling logbook estimates. That tells us that, sometime in the past, the population of humpbacks was pretty big -- and in fact our calculation for the North Atlantic suggests that the historic size of that population was about 240,000 animals.
D'OH All this is saying is that theyve been significantly depleted from an original diversity that was much larger than expected. DIversity is an indication of how depleted a population is by genetic stock, not necessarily by individuals. Palumbi is a geneticist who has looked at diversity as an indicator of "bottlenecks and crashes" in paleo populations based upon genetic diversity today (AT least try to understand what the guiy is saying before clipping it). You wont find anyone with a lick of sense that is pro hunting HUMP BACKS. The humpback population is quite small in number now and they, like the Right, may be nearing a condition that is beyond repair or even sustainability (yet the Japanese announced that they would TAKE a few humpbacks as well). All sorts of populational insult is affecting whale populations and the "slow whale breeds " especially. northern Humpbacks are now in Fundy for their summer feeding, and there are a number of them that get whacked each year by ship propellers. This cuts into the population

Quote:
"In light of our findings," Roman and Palumbi concluded, "current populations of humpback or fin whales are far from harvestable
AGAIN D"OH, Hows yer point upheld with this one? The fact that youre only interested in Minkes is immaterial to me. CJ's thread began with "WHALE RECIPES" not MINKE RECIPES. (CJ's not that bright).What part of that statement that Palumbi made dont you understand.? Ive already agreed (actually, Ive corrected your statement that there were only 110000 Minkes in the world, the number is about 10 times greater)> HOWEVER, harvesting a species to an ultimate threatened condition always begins with someone trying to justify an ancient practise that, by todays standards, isnt needed anymore. Subsistance hunting by Innuits is the only whaling that can be justified in good conscience, and just because Japan or Norway has a "taste for whale meat" isnt a reason to hunt them all to extinction.Theres no commercial chemical or other product that cant be made from other than whale feedstock.

If your entire point was just to try to sound intelligent, Ill give you that you have the sense to look up facts on Google and youve enlightened us (well youve actually not done your case any good by a few of your quotes but at least youre creating a storehouse of facts)If youre comfortable sitting in your house , trying to sound like an authority on whaling, contact your local office of GREENPEACE or THE SEA SHEPHERDS. I understand that were militanly t anti-whaling, but in about a few centuries, your great grandchildren will thank them for being a bunch of militant conservationists that protected whales from extinction
One of the roads to extinction is the seemingly benign advocacy of a horribly archaic practice that is "justified" by facts and figures mostly provided by the whale industry .
itself. Justifying the killing of Minkes by the euphemysm of "research" is sheer baloney that youve bought into. Most of the planet had originally signed onto a whaling moratorium. A few countries, based on dietary choices alone, have decided to try to undue the treaty and are busy lobbying non whaling members of the IWC to vote against the moratorium.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 05:25 am
Coolwhip, i notice that you haven't addressed FM's point about corporate greed. How do you respond to the charge that commercial interests which hope to privately profit from whale hunting are behind the insistence of the Norwegians and Japanese to hunt whales? Do you assert that whales are crucial, even at all necessary to the food stocks of either Norway or Japan? Do you assert the either Norway or Japan would suffer if there were no whale hunt?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 06:43 am
Coolwhip--Heres a clip from Msolgas thread on Japans plans to kill HumpbacksSTILL KILLING HUMPBACK WHALES
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:12 am
So, coolwhip can come in here, and call me an idiot in a thread clearly intended to bait me... and yet this thread remains...

I don't want it locked. I want it removed, along with those who posted it and continue to attack me personally.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:29 am
cjhsa wrote:
So, coolwhip can come in here, and call me an idiot in a thread clearly intended to bait me... and yet this thread remains...

I don't want it locked. I want it removed, along with those who posted it and continue to attack me personally.
The single most obnoxious poster on a2k is upset because he has been called out. Weird I'm thinking. Also I'm thinking fuc*king idiot.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:31 am
I want a meatloaf sammich.
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:34 am
Kill all gun toting, whale eating rednecks
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:39 am
Setanta wrote:
I want a meatloaf sammich.
I just had a "hot" Jimmy Dean sausage sammich (grinder I think they call it in the east) if thats what they call "hot" in the east I pity them.
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