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Thu 31 Jul, 2003 10:07 am
I received this e mail today. I like it. Others may not. So I thought I'd offer it up to the members just to see if they thought it was worth discussing.
> A Short Essay:
> >
> > Samuel Thompson wrote: I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going
> > to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December.
> >
> > I don't agree with Darwin but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my
> > high school teacher taught his theory of evolution.
> >
> > Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered
> > because someone says a 30 second prayer before a football game. So
> > what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the
> > entire book of Acts.
> > They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant
> > safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the
> > game.
> >
> > "But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the
> > United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles.
> >
> > According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all
> > others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody
> > chanting Hare Krishna?
> >
> > If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a
> > Jewish prayer. If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to
> > hear a Muslim prayer. If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would
> > expect to hear someone pray to Buddha. And I wouldn't be offended. It
> > wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome...
> >
> > But what about the atheists?" is another argument. What about them?we
>are not
> > asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the
> > collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too
> > much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit
> > the concession stand. Call your lawyer. Unfortunately, one or two will
> > make that call.
> > One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't
> > think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's
> > foundations.
> >
> > Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our
> > courts strip us of all our rights.
> >
> > Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray
> > before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us just to pray without ceasing.
> > Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease
> > praying.
> > God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just
> > sue me.
> >
> > The silent majority has been silent too long... it's time we let that
> > one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority
> > don't
> > care what they want... it is time the majority rules.
> >
> > It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray, you don't have to say
> > the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend
> > services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your
> > right ... but by golly you are no longer going to take our rights away
> > ... we are fighting back... and we WILL WIN!
> >
> > After all the God you have the right to denounce is on our side! God
> > bless us one and all, especially those who denounce Him...
> >
> > God bless America, despite all her faults, is still the greatest nation
> > of all.....
> > God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray
> > and worship God....
> >
Well, Dys, I agree with you.
This is one Christian who doesn't feel her rights are violated in the least by keeping her religion private. What I have to say to God is between Him & me...not a classroom or a stadium full of people.
I've had about enough of ALL the extremists...the agnostics and athiests who don't respect my right to believe & practice my faith, as well as the religious who want to impose their beliefs on everyone else. Seems to me, the problem isn't the law or our changing society...it's a basic lack of respect for others.
tis a far easier thing to respect others when the respect is mutual
"I don't agree with Darwin but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution"
The people who produce and circulate this stuff (Bobsymth excepted) generally do exactly that.
This is nothing more than sappy, self serving, special pleading.
Acquiunk wrote:The people who produce and circulate this stuff (Bobsymth excepted) generally do exactly that.
What made you think so? The author of the letter calls for mutual tolerance and freedom of conscience.
Actually, I'm pretty tired of both sides. I doubt that public proclimations on either side will ever sway the other. Both groups are willing to ask for legislation to preserv their belief and then cry out that the government is attempting to erode our personal freedom through legislation and new laws. Don't invite the wolf in and expect him to just eat the pig you don't like. "I'm afraid my child will become a christian!" "I'm afraid my child will loose his faith in gad!" I doubt that true faith or an honest lack of faith has been swayed in either direction because of a simple prayer or lack of one in a school room or stadium. I would suggest that fear most often arises from those that lack a full committment to either belief.
The silent majority may be silent because they lack the strong feelings that the vocal minority, of the silent majority, openly express. If, in fact, the silent majority were as strong willed as many would hope or suggest, anti-prayer legislation would never have enacted.
This sort of arguement could be streched in all directions. What if the gay population wanted the words "Wife" and "Husband" removed from school curriculums and replaced with "Significant Other" or animal rights activist wanted all references to "Beef" removed as it swayed youth to see cows as only a food source, not as a living creature. How far do we want to go and why should we. Dys and Eva have the most reasonable approach; "Respect." But, seldom does that appear to be an approach many are wiling to consider.
Just a thought. Breaks over, back to drywalling!
interesting to note but i also think significant is that (i assume) eva is a chistian and i am an atheist, human dignity and respect can and should transend personal ideology.
Yep, me too!
I've been in the other room working and the term "Silent Majority" keeps rumbleing around in my head. I will agree that Christians are the majority but, the term, as used, seems to suggest that this majority is in agreement and silent. That may not bee the case.
I wonder what would happen to an atheist who recorded the words of Madelyn O'Hare and played them on a loudspeaker immediately after a Christian finished saying a prayer over the microphone in a crowded building? Would the Christians say, "Well it's only lasting a minute or two. We can be still a moment for the atheist to do a 'private' prayer of his own, since he did the same for us. No harm done"
That would be pressing it a little!
However, there are a good number of weddings that are held that are free of religeous references. I am sure the same is true of burials. I have no belief in god but I have no words that I've come up with that serve as a parrallel to prayer. The case you propose would not be that far fetched if it were presented with some amount of dignity and free from anti-christian wording.
At a funeral: "And for others, may his spirit be freed to move about in joy and peace and may the memories of him bring you warmth and solitude."
The "silent majority" is anything but silent.
And as Edgar said, what if an atheist wanted to proclaim atheism on a loudspeaker after the prayer?
Ya wanna pray, do it privately. Especially if you are a Christian, because no less a figure than Jesus said that is the way it should be done.
You see; I never mentioned anti Christian wording? Yet, that is the automatic reaction people have.
Actually, as I think about it; it's one of those things that isn't done because it hasn't been done. If it were done on a greater scale, people would probably come to accept it over time.
Those who would speak for the silent majority are anything but silent.
To follow up on what I've just said: Atheists do not, in the main, look for ways to dis the religious (except when arguing on these forums or when being idiots like the O'Hares were). A few words concerning an atheist's view on life need not be abrasive.
I agree and don't assume that they need be. I added the note to address the idea of a recording an O'Hera thoughts. I also think that your thought of "in the main" is quite correct.
Beyond that, I think that this issue is as much a sociological issue as theological. Human behavior dictates social acceptance as much as religeon.
I agree with dys on this topic.
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