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Harry Potter the Satanic wizard - ridiculous.

 
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2007 05:26 pm
http://www.princessserenity.net/cosplay/moon%20and%20mask.jpg
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anton bonnier
 
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Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2007 11:38 pm
When you read the Hole-y bible and realize what has been taught to little children over the last umpteen years. It's a wonder that Christians didn't fear that theirs would become devil worshipers, I've not read any of the Potter books, seen all the movies, the so called evil doers there are tame up against the god in the bible, and at least Potter was able to overcome them for the good.. Perhaps we should put potter into the god buisness.
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lostnsearching
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2007 01:27 am
aperson wrote:
Leena, I don't get you. You call my approach immature and then you support it?


IMO- She didn't call YOUR approach to be immature.... she agreed with the fact that the approach you were discussing is immature....
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LEENA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2007 07:46 pm
Quote:
aperson wrote:
Leena, I don't get you. You call my approach immature and then you support it?


IMO- She didn't call YOUR approach to be immature.... she agreed with the fact that the approach you were discussing is immature....


Yeah, what I called immature was the other people's point of view of Harry Potter being demonic.
Boy, you got confused big time! :wink:
Anyway........hope it's cleared. Smile
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2007 08:10 pm
Hey, did you hear that Boomerang is a child-thrilling overseas liberal?
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 06:10 pm
Check out this video.

http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/07/25/harry-potter-subverting-jeebus/
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Tai Chi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 06:14 pm


Give me strength...
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Aug, 2007 07:32 pm
Harry Potter and the Last Crusade
Thursday, July 26, 2007
by Sara
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/07/harry-potter-and-last-crusade.html

Dave's Harry Potter piece below led to a lively comments discussion on why fundamentalists are so bothered by myth-and-magic stories. There are several things going on all at once here -- but all of them, in the end, touch back to one thread at the deepest core of their theology.

The first thing to bear in mind about fundamentalists is that, in the darkest depths of their minds, almost all of them harbor deep, unspoken doubts about their belief system. In fact, for all their protestations about truth and certainty, doubt is perhaps the main wellspring of their zeal: only people who live in a perpetual state of guilty unbelief can be strung along for a lifetime in such a desperate, grasping quest for assurance that their faith is sufficient for a God who offers grace, but demands constant efforts at perfection in return.

My ex-fundie friends all acknowledge that they never felt good enough, pure enough, "saved" enough to be true Christians. Always, deep down, there was the feeling that if everybody really knew who they were, they'd be shunned by God and the church. Much of their passionate prayer and seeking was driven by this secret dread. Manipulative pastors foster these doubts deliberately, precisely to ignite that passion and keep their flock insecure, ever dependent on them for guidance and that elusive assurance of salvation.

So doubt is a standard feature of the fundamentalist package. And it's also why they're so defensive about their own mythos. We reality-based folk don't need to feel terribly defensive about our worldview. We can verify truth with our own eyes. If our beliefs are questioned, we'll debate the observable facts, and perhaps either change the other person's mind or our own accordingly (and, either way, feel richer for the exchange). Acknowledging reality can't shake our mythos, since we don't have a mythos to shake.

But once you've rejected the reality-based world in favor of a mythic worldview, you are -- by definition -- building your life on an epistemology that has no verifiable support structure. Which means there are always going to be moments when faith dissipates just long enough to admit a quiet, nagging doubt about the foundations of your reality. It also means that you're going to regard any and all competing myth systems -- no matter how fantastic -- as a serious existential threat that stands in direct competition to your own (equally fantastic) myth system. They have to be treated as equivalent, because they're all made of the same flimsy stuff.

In this no-reality-allowed zone, no rational exchange of ideas is possible, and logic and reasoned debate have no power to cool the resulting conflicts. The battle can only be won by stirring up people's emotions until they're high, hot, and loud enough to drown out those nagging fears -- at least for a while. And, like an addict, you need frequent and increasing doses of that emotional juice to keep the doubts at bay, because they're never really gone for good.

Voltaire concisely summarized the potential dangers that lurk in this willful and escalating abandonment of reason when he said: "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Left to run, the endless rush to quench doubt does end up, often enough, in atrocity.

The second thing (which several commenters touched on) is the observation that fundamentalists reject almost anything that takes people's mindshare off God, bible, and church. They're not fond of popular culture in any of its forms; and many live in carefully-constructed personal bubble zones within which everything they read, hear, see, touch, buy, and use is Christian-oriented. Anything secular is "of the Devil," and therefore unfit for someone seeking to live a godly life. It was easy enough to predict that they'd reject Harry Potter on these grounds alone.

But that, on its own, doesn't explain the extreme hysteria we see in the video Dave linked to. Harry Potter, like Dungeons & Dragons (disclaimer: Mr. R worked on several D&D games as an employee of the game's original publisher), Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Sabrina, Magic: The Gathering, Kiki's Delivery Service (which also got its share of this) or Pokemon pushes some extra buttons that can't be rationalized by a mere desire to avoid all things secular. So, what's that about?

The common thread that runs through all of these is magic. And that, I think, is the real burr that gets under fundamentalist saddles. In fundieland, magic is the most frightening and legitimate of all the competing myth systems -- the Devil's own preferred alternative to prayer and submission. Other belief systems (Buddhism, Hinduism, the Greek myths) are viewed as sad and rather pathetically delusional; but anything that smacks of magic is feared as actively Satanic.

Why is magic such a hot button? The reasons go to the heart of fundamentalist theology. At their core, fundamentalists believe that humans are wretched creatures who aren't really even human unless touched by God's grace. (And, yes, this does mean that those of us who are unsaved can rightly be considered subhuman.) We cannot do anything right; we do not deserve to have control over our own affairs; and any notion that we have intrinsic power to achieve good in the world (or even the authority to define "good" or "bad" on our own terms) is a diabolical delusion. Left to our own devices, we will not only screw it up for ourselves; we will ultimately ensure the Devil his victory over the world -- including them -- as well.

Implicit in this is the idea that all authority is necessarily, rightfully external. The fate of the entire world depends on how completely we can give up our desire to control our destinies, and submit to God and his appointed earthly overseers. This obsession with the need for external authority is, in a nutshell, is why fundamentalism is a form of religious authoritarianism.

Stories about magic openly defy this whole belief system. Magic-using characters like Harry usurp the supernatural power and prerogatives of God -- a sufficient heresy in its own right. But it's worse than that: they're also exercising their own internal authority, and acting out of their own agency. And that's the last thing fundamentalists want their children -- or anyone else -- learning how to do.

That's why we're hearing all the shrieking hysterics from the fundie side. Stories and games like Buffy and Harry and D&D put us in the shoes of heroes who take charge of their power and use it to shape their own realities -- and worse, to defy overweening, intrusive authority. They contain messages that undermine the power of external leaders, and encourage people to believe in their own limitless power to create change. They show us protagonists who overcome doubt, take risks, and gain confidence; and who make their world better without waiting around for God to act.

If everyone thought that way, where would we be then? We wouldn't follow our leaders. We'd try to rule ourselves. We might get the idea that our destinies were in our own hands. We might even entertain the delusion that we're somehow "free" people who don't have to answer to anyone but ourselves. And then where would God's designated regents -- the would-be dictators, oligarchs, and theocrats -- be?

Dave has promised his thoughts on the deeper implications of Harry Potter's final volume. My point here is that the fundamentalist panic over these books is not something we can just laugh off as more deranged weirdness from people who don't understand the world they live in. They do understand, perhaps better than we do, that the stories we tell ourselves ultimately create the reality we'll be living in at some point in the future. And they also know that stories like these have the power to raise our awareness, focus our intention, and steel our resistance against the unholy authoritarian plans they have laid for our obedient "salvation."
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mismi
 
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Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 06:29 pm
I am a Bible Thumping Christian and have read all the Harry Potter series...I read it to find out what my fellow believers were fussing so much about. I have to say that I saw no real difference between Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. And my circle LOVES the Lord of the Rings Trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien. SO that being said - if I did not know any background from either series - they just look like Good Vs. Evil to me....much ado about nothing. Sometimes the controversy we stir just makes things worse. Probably all of the suggestions of witchcraft and sorcery being encouraged in these books makes some of the younger ones try to find out more about it. I am a firm believer in knowing when to keep your mouth shut...must learn it somehow though. :wink:
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xingu
 
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Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 07:43 pm
Not all Christians are alike. Some are a closer resemblance to Osama bin Laden than Christ.
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mismi
 
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Reply Tue 7 Aug, 2007 08:03 pm
xingu wrote:
Not all Christians are alike. Some are a closer resemblance to Osama bin Laden than Christ.


well....nobody's perfect. Except Christ...no - I don't want to get into that.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2007 03:23 am
IFeelFree wrote:
This site exemplifies the kind of hysteria that condemns the Harry Potter books.
Quote:
Then according to Acts 19:19 you should gather up all your occult paraphernalia like your rock music, occult books, charms, Dungeons and Dragons material. Don't throw them away. Burn them[/u]!

I found it humorous.

That site is THE BIGGEST load of bullshit I have ever seen. No, that's an exaggeration, it is still pretty big.
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aperson
 
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Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2007 03:28 am
Ok sorry Leena.

That woman in that video must have some problems...
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aperson
 
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Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2007 03:31 am
Oh yeah and another point I forgot to make - if Christians really believe in God, then they won't believe in magic in the Harry Potter sense, and therefore it shouldn't be a threat to them! It's not like crazy Wicca chicks are actually going to do them harm by magic!
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mismi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Aug, 2007 08:20 am
Well...the Christians are not so much worried about the Wicca chicks...it is the power behind Wicca Chicks...Even though God is stronger, mightier and infinitely holy - and loving - we have to contend with Satan while here on earth...he can destroy and finds ways to. Christians and non-Christians alike...He can make the Christians focus on stupid things like Harry Potter and how horrible it is (not) instead of the people who truly need their attention like the sick and starving. And he can make the non-believers feel they do not need God because they have their own source of empowerment. And believing that you yourself are the only one you have to answer to is exactly where he wants you. No time for God = Satan satisfied.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 07:54 pm
So some Christians actually believe in Satanic magic?

I knew a Wicca chick. She was a lesbian and had a mohawk.
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anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2007 10:49 pm
mismia40. Quote.. "Even though God is stronger, mightier and infinitely holy - and loving - we have to contend with Satan while here on earth...he can destroy and finds ways to. Christians and non-Christians alike..."


What a load of cods wallop.... So your stupid God isn't stronger and mightier... Your Satan who supposedly was created by your stupid God, is just as great, isn't he? After all he was here before your mythical Jesus and there is nothing your God or Jesus can do about him... So you and your like are stuck with him, get over it, if nothing else, Satan and his clever tactics are sure making things interesting on earth. Your Gods earth would be bloody boring with out him or her.
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