HAVE U LESS RIGHT TO DEFEND YOUR LIFE IF U R STUDYING ?

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Here's an analysis from the Australian Bureau of Statistics regarding Australian firearm deaths 1991-2001

It makes for interesting reading

Tighter gun control was introduced in 1997
(after the rampage of one Martin Bryant, who shot and killed 35 people (if I remember right) in Tasmania)

It wud be fun to have the power
to change history.
If I had that power, I 'd go back in time
and arm the victims BETTER than the mentally unhealthy misanthrope that attacked them.
Maybe give each of them an H & K MP5 ( that 's my favorite submachinegun ).

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http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi2/tandi269t.html

Just a couple of excerpts :
-In 1991 there were 629 firearm related deaths in Australia compared to 333 in 2001.

Vik:
can u tell me how well armed the victims were ?

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- The incidence of both firearms suicides and firearms homicides almost halved over the 11 year period.

Y r we interested in suicides with firearms ??
Do u prefer that suicides jump off the tops of hi buildings ?
or drive their cars fast into opposing traffic ?
Du u require suicides to use knives ?

Everyone has the right to end his life,
whenever he dam pleases; that is a PERSONAL DECISION.

By what right do u seek to interfere ?
David

Vik:
can u tell me how well armed the victims were ?

Y r we interested in suicides with firearms ??

Everyone has the right to end his life,
whenever he dam pleases; that is a PERSONAL DECISION.

By what right do u seek to interfere ?

Vikorr wrote :

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The difference between our stances David,
is that you live in a theoretical world that ignores human nature.

I deny that.
The facts do not support u.

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If you give guns to everyone, there will be a percentage of people that will have any of the following problems
(or a combination thereof) :

-have mental illness
-are suicidal
-are criminals
-are drug addicts /do drugs (socially etc)
-are irresponsible
-are unwilling to be trained (or unable to pay the money to be trained)
-have bad jealousy episodes / anger management issues
-commit domestic violence
-are stupid / have poor judgement /lack common sense
-have poor communication skills
-are overly fearful
-don't value life
-feel the need for respect (and think a gun will get it for them)
-want to look cool

I do not wish to give free guns to ANYONE.
Let them get their own guns, as I did.
Choice of guns is a matter of very personal taste.

Regarding the conditions that u have set forth above:
If thay wish to arm themselves,
thay WILL DO IT.
If thay violate the rights of any person,
THEN u can justifyably intervene; not before.
If those people arm themselves and then CAUSE NO TROUBLE,
then it is none of your dam business.

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Considering it's impossible to easily tell who are psychopaths
(psychologist put them at about 2-3 percent of the population)

Judge them by their CONDUCT.
IF thay r psychopaths and cause no trouble,
then leave them alone. U don 't need to tell who r psychopaths.
Just mind your own business.

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, who is suicidal,

That is none of your business.
By what right do u seek to interfere in suicide ??

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who has angermanagement/domestic violence issues etc etc etc...
I would choose a way that doesn't put guns in the hands of all these people...

THAY will put guns in their OWN hands, as I did.
What is it with this socialist free gun giveaway business ?

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Now in the US, you have a much bigger gun ownership than here in
Australia, so it may well be too late to stop the gun laws in the US.
You see, you make assumptions about what I believe.

There is no need to make assumptions:
u r telling me, quite fully.

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What may work in my country, may not work in your country,
so I don't advocate anything for your country, as I don't live there, and don't know it's dangers.

So u r saying that Americans may have the right
to defend their lives and other property from predatory violence,
but Austrailians do not ?

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It's sad that you've had to pull out a gun in defense of your life,
and that you know others who've had to do the same.

Well, I lost a driver 's side window to a bullethole,
but other than that, no harm came of it.
I found some degree of humor in it at the time;
I got a chuckle out of it.
Winston Churchill wud understand.

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I've never known anyone who's had to do that...nor anyone who's known anyone else who's had to do that.

If I remember right, Australia has about 1 million guns in the country (so about 1 in 20 people). They have to be stored in a locked safe that is bolted to the floor of the owners house (or at an armoury). So here, even if someone invades your home, you can't easily get to the gun.

The criminals must LOVE that:
an on-the-job safety program for violent criminals,
to protect them from the defenses of their victims.

I hope innocent Austrailian citizens don 't obey THAT law;
a suicide law.

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Yet still, excepting two things (1. Arguments between criminals,
and 2. Domestic situations), gun related deaths in Australia are rare in the extreme.

Were I to advocate that we (in Australia) put guns (esp handguns)
in the hands of all those loony people I mentioned above, gun related deaths would soar...and
why would I advocate more deaths?

Let them get their OWN guns, or make them, if thay choose.

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You are entitled to hold your own opinion on what is right and wrong from
your perspective - but it is only your opinion / perspective.
That it is your opinion/perspective does not make it right (whatever you think),
just as it does not make it wrong (whatever others think)....
it is just that - an opinion/perspective of a person.
Same with my opinion / perspective.

Even an animal has a natural right to defend himself.
David

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David, your perspective appears to be that anyone who disagrees with firearms for all is wrong.

Not exactly.
I have said many times by now
that I do not favor government distributing guns, as a socialist giveaway program.
Let everyone get HIS OWN GUN,
as I did; just DON 'T INTERFERE with it; adopt a l'assez faire
libertarian attitude toward it.

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Vik:
can u tell me how well armed the victims were ?

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The question shows you didn't read the link.

True.

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Of the (333) 2001 fatalities, 18 were accidents, 261 were suicides, 47 were homicides, and 7 undetermined/other. Those stats don't break the 47 homicides down into the two major classes of homicide - Domestic Homicide (in which case the victim spouse/child rarely has a gun on them), and Criminal v Criminal Homicide (over drug debts and the likes). Homicide between strangers is the rarest form of homicide in Australia.

That means that almost all of them ( over 78% )
were SUICIDES. Those people were perfectly within their rights
to end their lives; that is none of your business.
It was a personal matter.

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Y r we interested in suicides with firearms ??

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That should be self evident - firearms is perhaps of the easiest forms of suicide,

Is suicide supposed to be DIFFICULT ? troublesome ?

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Everyone has the right to end his life,
whenever he dam pleases; that is a PERSONAL DECISION.

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I've no problem with that,
just so long as they decide to do it in a way that doesn't mean others
are traumatised by the mess (that would be suicide by train, cop etc,
or anything where there is body parts and unnecessary blood left laying around).

Do u wish to abolish the Railroads and police ?

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By what right do u seek to interfere ?

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Would you care to clarify whether you mean interfere in gun related suicides,
or interfere in ownership of guns?

I meant suicides,
but it applies to gun possession too.
Self defense is an individual right; a natural right.

I do not wish to give free guns to ANYONE.
Let them get their own guns, as I did.

That means that almost all of them ( over 78% )
were SUICIDES. Those people were perfectly within their rights
to end their lives; that is none of your business.
It was a personal matter.

Thanks msgola. That was me. I missed that one.

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I do not wish to give free guns to ANYONE.
Let them get their own guns, as I did.

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You're playing avoidance and semantics David...
if anyone can obtain a gun (for a fee), then it is free -
from the perspective there are no government restrictions on the obtaining of a weapon.

Consider the FUTILITY of what u r saying:
if predatory criminals cannot be dissuaded from murder:
if venal misanthropes cannot be deterred from robbery,
then HOW can u get them to obey government restrictions ?

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That means that almost all of them ( over 78% )
were SUICIDES. Those people were perfectly within their rights
to end their lives; that is none of your business.
It was a personal matter.

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Considering you have been talking about being threatened with death,
it's surprising you focus on the suicide stat…
did you notice how many Australians die from firearms murders each year?

I know that the English police cooked the books * on statistics
to make gun prohibition look not as bad when it made crime WORSE
in England ( particularly in home invasions, wherein the homeowners
are known to be at home, since the criminals have faith that thay have
DISARMED themselves, in obedience to English law against self defense ).
I do not have data handy regarding Austrailian,
but I am skeptical, since human nature tends to be similar
from England to Austrailia.

* For instance,
newly retired police officers of higher rank ( having become immune from being fired or demoted )
told of having been ordered to secretly change methods of counting felonies,
so that several crimes committed against several people
( e.g., burglary, robbery, murder ) at the same time n place
be counted as ONE crime only, for record keeping purposes.

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It's miniscule, but you would have me advocate a policy that
would increase the number of firearms murders…while trying to tell me
that it would make people in Australia safer.

Let the Austrailians do whatever they want with their own country.
I suppose that those of u who want freedom
can emigrate and go to a free country.
I care about MY OWN country.

When WE threw out discriminatory licensure of the right to self defense
( called " gun control " ) crime dropped in each state, from the time
that gun control was rejected; no state in America has ever changed its mind and reverted.

Disarming victims gives violent criminals an incentive
to commit more predatory crime, in that the criminals are SAFER
on the job, than thay were when their victims cud not fight back.

As a thought experiment, Vikorr,
put yourself into the mind of a burglar in the middle of the night:
one house, on the left, u know to be the abode of fanatically pacifistic Amish,
who posted signs saying:
" There are no guns in this house. "

On your right is a home that u know to be filled with rightwingers ARMED TO THE TEETH,
who devotedly believe in aggressive SELF DEFENSE, and make no secret of it.

If YOU were a burglar in the middle of the night,
which house wud U rather break into ?

Tell me that ??


David

Those that argue with you do so with no regard for facts.

In the 6 years since Port Arthur there have been no incidents in Australia where four or more people were shot. Between 1987 and 1996, 100 people were shot dead in Australia in mass shootings including those at Strathfield, Hoddle and Queen streets in Melbourne, and Port Arthur.

Given the efforts of police to encourage more reporting of sexual assault offences, it appears that an increasing proportion of incidents is being reported and recorded by police.