The Abortion Thread

Again I'll ask you: Do you believe a quarter of women are criminal? if in Russia the percentage is more than half what then?

Diest TKO wrote:

Again I'll ask you: Do you believe a quarter of women are criminal? if in Russia the percentage is more than half what then?

Sorry been away on holidays, banned from PC for 2 weeks, I am afraid the answer is Yes and if any women came near me and said she had one I would tell her the same answer, I am lucky I live in a moral society and abortion is illegal here, and no lefty has a chance in hell of getting it legalised, any country where it is legal will never reverse the rule, as they will just destroy their women they spent years brain washing into believing its a good thing... a womans choice. What aload of BS. All the countries in the world who didn't legalise in the 70's still haven't and won't cause we have seen its destruction in those that did.

Evidence Doesn't Matter

abortion was clearly linked to elevated rates of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and suicidal behavior.

"to pro-choice advocates, mental health effects are not relevant to the legal context of arguments to restrict access to abortion."

"Thirty-five years ago, when the APA joined in the effort to legalize abortion, they were promising more than just 'relief,'" he added. "They were insisting that abortion would fundamentally improve women's mental and physical health by sparing them the burden of unwanted children. But 38 million abortions later, there is still not a single statistically-validated study that has shown that abortion has actually improved the lives of women who abort compared to those who carry to term.

Evidence Doesn't Matter

Don't expect people to be impressed that you can walk up to a stranger and try to make them feel morally or intellectually inferior. Next, the use of the phrase "lefty" in your post highly suggests that you lack the ability to speak objectively.

Your notion that you live in a moral society is a risky one for you. By saying such a thing you now absorb the responcibility of defending all of your societies choices as being moral. Are you up for that challenge? I honestly don't think you are.

Why do you think that women are brainwashed? Plenty of women choose to keep their child, what is happening systematically that is brainwashing women? Your claim is unfounded and unsupported. You also calim the the notion of a woman's choice to be "BS." If you wish to post something like this, back it up.

You lastly refered to the destruction that abortion has done, yet you provide no evidence of any destruction. Please provide the difference in your society's level of destruction and a society that condones abortion.

You seem very willing to provide opinion, but your opinion alone is not supported by anything thus far.

I'm not Professor David M. Fergeson. Evidence does matter, and for that the APA has concluded at the end of many studies that PAS is not a scientifically supported phenomenon. The person charged with studying PAS was H. Koop, former surgeon general of the USA, and pro-life advocate.

You'll kindly reply to my post now and address what I've directed toward you.

T
K
O

p.s. - The APA furthwer has found that women experiance more psychological trauma from putting a child up for adoption than they do from having an abortion. Food for thought, but I doubt you're hungry.

Diest TKO wrote:

Don't expect people to be impressed that you can walk up to a stranger and try to make them feel morally or intellectually inferior. Next, the use of the phrase "lefty" in your post highly suggests that you lack the ability to speak objectively.

As I have never met someone who openly speaks of abortion or anyone who is pro-abortion then i don't be in such position, plus if I did and someone was proudly speaking of how they murdered their child i would quite happily tell them that they commited a crime. Why should I stand back while they try and be morally superior to me?

As for the leftie bit, I am afraid its only extreme left groups that want abortion legalised here. They would be the likes of "Militant Socialist", "Workers Solidarity Movement", "Anarchism" and some feminist groups. No elected MP here has ever called for the law to be changed.

Diest TKO wrote:

Your notion that you live in a moral society is a risky one for you. By saying such a thing you now absorb the responcibility of defending all of your societies choices as being moral. Are you up for that challenge? I honestly don't think you are.

I never said my society was perfect, what i was trying to say is there is a clear link between abortion and rising child abuse rates, in some countries child abuse has rise by as much as 330% since abortion was legalised, were as countries that abortion remained illegal stayed static, or only hd slight increases. So the Pro-death camps arguement that abortion prevents abuse is a falsehood. Kill rather than beat seems to be their moto.

Source...

Diest TKO wrote:

Why do you think that women are brainwashed? Plenty of women choose to keep their child, what is happening systematically that is brainwashing women? Your claim is unfounded and unsupported. You also calim the the notion of a woman's choice to be "BS." If you wish to post something like this, back it up.

Its quite simple, abotion is murder, to think otherwise is brain washing. I saw a Nazi death squad member interviewed who killed thousands of Jews, all he did was justify his acts as being good and proper. The principle is the same.

Diest TKO wrote:

You lastly refered to the destruction that abortion has done, yet you provide no evidence of any destruction. Please provide the difference in your society's level of destruction and a society that condones abortion.

In 1973, when abortion became legal in the United States, there were 167,000 cases of child abuse and neglect reported. Yet in 1980 there were 785,100 cases - an increase of 370% from 1973. Furthermore, in 1987, there were 2,025,200 cases reported, which represents an increase of 1112%.

Source: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. National Center of Child Abuse and Neglect; National Analysis of Official Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting.

Diest TKO wrote:

You seem very willing to provide opinion, but your opinion alone is not supported by anything thus far.

I have yet to see any facts and figures from yourself....

TBH mate, I really don't honestly care, personally I wish it never happened at all, but it does, and will no matter what i say or do it will continue, I just hope no members of my family will ever go down that path.

I also believe to many women use it like a condom and i find this sickening as it is a life they are destroying, and maybe some proper advise could actually change their attitudes towards this procedure.

As for my MP's they are all narrow minded idiots who promote religious extremism and crap here, i don't listen to their BS either.

I honestly like your attitude towards abortion which is allot better than most (Although not as far as i would go), pre-nine weeks is the only way to go in countries that will not change.)

Anyway gotta go pub calls

Can I get in on this debate?

I hope the fact that I'm new here doesn't affect your objectivity when reading my posts.

Anyway, before I start I just wanted to say that you've digressed a little. And that I refuse to debate with members such as BDV, as they are irritating in that they simply argue from opinion, instead of evidence. I hope I can find some good philosophical discussion.

And that I refuse to debate with members such as BDV, as they are irritating in that they simply argue from opinion, instead of evidence. I hope I can find some good philosophical discussion.

I refuse to debate with members such as ....are irritating in that they simply argue from opinion, instead of evidence. I hope I can find some good philosophical discussion.

LOL. So you will only debate with those who argue from evidence - then ask for "some good" philosophical discussion.

The appellee and certain amici argue that the fetus is a "person" within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment. In support of this, they outline at length and in detail the well-known facts of fetal development. If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case, of course, collapses, for the fetus' right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment. The appellant conceded as much on reargument.

I think the old thread has lived long enough and I've seen many people return to the original question several times now.

I'd like to continue discussion and be able to discuss all related matters.

Your personal moral beliefs...
The legal aspects of abortion...
What role individuals, church and the government play in the discussion...
Science and Medicine...
Alternatives...
History...
Comprimise...

T
K
gO

We should try and focus in on one part of the argument. I'm choosing to argue "Is the mother responsible?".

To this, I pose an example. The Burglar. Suppose a woman, living alone in her suburban household, and, having full knowledge of "burglars" and what burglars do and what burglars are capable of doing and that there are burglars out there in the city within which she lives, decides to throw open her window on a particularly stuffy night. Lo, and behold, a burglar walks climbs in. It would be absurd to say "Ah, now he can stay, she's given him a right to the use of her house, for she is partially responsible for his presence there, having voluntarily done what enabled him to get in, in full knowledge that there are such things as burglars and that burglars burgle." - Thompson, A Defense of Abortion.

Well if you leave the windows open it is no longer a "Breaking and entry" charge, and by law in the UK if you leave your windows or door open a person may enter your house as long as the don't commit a crime or are asked to leave.... Anyway i posted allot of evidence, and from you none!

RL - How does a zygote qualify for personhood?