When parents aren't good people -when do we say "no more"?

Start with the house. Announce that you are uncomfortable with the stench and if your mother wants to see you it will have to be someplace else: a coffee shop, a park, the local mall.

Stick to this. No, you will not pick her up (and come in for just-a-minute). No, you will not bring her groceries or medicine or a bottle of gin.

Start by saying no on this one issue. Develop your No Saying muscles.


Good luck.

... and you might also want to have a talk with your mother's doctor. The behavior you're describing sounds like it's the sign of something greater than just some stubbornness.

Divorce her.

I think what the others are talking about are borders - making them clear and not bending on them.

This is not easy - but YOU need to decide what you want your relationship to be - and then you need to put thier boundaries on what you are willing to give and what you are willing to take.

Also, get some help. If she is this abusive - you need to take care of your mental help by talking to another professionaly trained party that can give you advice on what is going on - and what you can do to help yourself.

You have a long road ahead - god speed.

TF

I relate very well, especially with your conscience for staying the course.

My own history with my own mother happened long ago but it framed my life in many ways. Just as I was working up to challenge her as my own person ... that intersected to when she was coming down with alzheimer's.
I was a single fairly recently independent twenty six.

Messy, in that some of my aggravation was when she was virtually sick from it, but that and her behavior before were all of a piece, only more exaggerated as she became more ill. I loved her but none of this was easy.

I could hardly bear to read your post. Most people would have found some way to be gone before and you are still worrying about nuances I understand but see you swept under.

She has been abusive of you in behavior if not in complete willfulness, but she is probably now veering toward being a person who can't deal with life on her own, either through manipulation or present disability.

I wish you had counselling. I needed it back-when for myself, when I had no clue. Things aren't black and white, exactly. She is used to manipulating but is not entirely wrong on whatever. Most children walk. Some of us onlys
are sort of stuck, which can be a grand trap.

After you understand all this you still may not get to walk away, but need to take care of both her care and legalities.
I have only empathy for you. Consider an attorney, but even before that, different opinions. I didn't pick the right attorney, nice, big city, but as joint tenant, I didn't need to lose the house to pay for her nursing home, which I found out years later, after I lost it. It is now worth a lot of money.
Bittersweet, twice lost, and I am not at all wealthy, which even now is not quite the point. In my case, I sold the house to pay for her nursing home bills and I didn't have to - it would have been handled if I, as joint tenant, had just moved in and neither the Beverly Hills attorney nor the UCLA social worker told me about that. Ne'er mind, it is a long time ago. Just a warning that you put up your antennae. Nothing was all so valuable then, but it is now, thirty years later, very much more valuable. The house was a block and a half, thereabouts, from Sunset Boulevard. Anybody heard of Gretna Green Way? Sigh.

I didn't mean to make this about money, as it isn't for me, except that I can't help but notice I screwed up because I wasn't attuned.

So, if you need to talk here, please do. I for one am glad to listen. But I hope you reach for local wise counselling, perhaps more than one, so as to get a range of points of view.

I guess I should emphasize that I love my mother now more with the distance from that time.

Sunset? GG stops at Montana. South of San V. at the elementary school. around the bend from where OJ did his terrible deed. 'Member the old Westward Ho? Are you a Uni-brat?
Sorry about your mom. Yep. You're a co-dependent. Need a good counselor. Forgiveness is the key. The whole business sounds dreadful. Letting go and letting God sounds like so much BS...but that's critical to your recovery. I will pray for you and lots of sincere others will also. It really helps. There is hope but you have to try your ass off. Somehow your tone sounds so terminal. Ending it all would be such a stupid choice. Think of your Corgi.
You are in such denial. Your latent defiance and your egocentricism are such barriers. Bet we hung out at the same places way back then. Remember the Sugar Plum Tree in the Village? The Bel Air fire? Snow up top at Mandeville? The Country Mart? The Point? The Serra Bros. Retreat before the fire?
It's time to leave the past in the past.

Your mother sounds emotionally infantile, and she likely has been that way her entire life. She isn't insane, but she may be depressed, judging from her present living conditions. Despite the fact that she acts like an emotional terrorist and master manipulator, she sounds fragile in terms of her psychological makeup. But, nothing you can do will change her basic personality or her general behavior or her way of relating to you.

You know your mother is abusive. Knowing that, why do you continue to feel guilty about her? You aren't responsible for her condition, and, in fact, you are the one being hurt. Guilt is not something you should be feeling. You shouldn't feel guilty because you don't like being abused and manipulated.

For your own well being you must distance yourself from your mother--if not physical distance, at least emotional distance. One way to start is to simply accept her as she is, as difficult as that might be. If she lives in slovenly conditions, accept that. Joke about it, at least to your self. As someone else suggested, meet her outside her home or invite her to your home. If your mother throws tantrums, ignore them or leave the situation. You do not have to provide her with an audience, and you should not reinforce her behavior. You should not allow her to hurt you any more, and one way to do that is to become emotionally detached. You do have to establish boundries, otherwise she will suck you into her emotional storms.

You seem to have tried all the reasonable ways of showing her you care and offering to help her. And it seems she rejects those offers and insults you to boot. So, stop trying. Let her be, as long as she isn't doing anything to harm or injure herself. Don't try to change her or her life style.
If you want to, let her know you care in other ways--with a phone call, a card, an unexpected little gift, some flowers, even a gift of pet food, etc. Those are all things you can do on your own terms, that put you back in control of the situation.

You are a grown woman and you aren't dependent on your mother any more. You don't need her approval and you don't have to tolerate her abuse. If she makes it difficult to love her, or even to be with her, that is her choice. If you dislike being with her, because the interactions are so unpleasant, you have the choice of keeping your distance. You are not obligated to tolerate abuse just because it comes from your mother.

If you detach, and just let her be, you might be able to maintain some sort of relationship with her. The fact you say you have thought about moving from the state, just to avoid her, suggests you haven't been able to do that. That's where I think that therapy could be very helpful to you. You need to neutralize your mother's power over you. You need to further explore and understand your feelings of guilt regarding her. You need to be able to put her into a different place in your own emotional inner life. You need to stop feeling her pull as an emotional bully, and you need to stop feeling her power over you as a victim. I truly think that therapy could help you to accomplish that, and would help to make you a generally stronger and happier person.

Right now, stop thinking of ways to help your mother. Make yourself your first priority. Seek out the best therapist you can find. I think that move could make a big difference in your life.

I wish you well.

OB you have wonderful caring people like Firefly here for you.
I know someone from your neighborhood who celebrates her birthday today. Doing the things Fire recommends are quite difficult without a coach. Share this birthday by giving yourself a gift of hope...find a professional counselor to help you move on. You deserve to be happy.

What in the world are you talking about?

1) Gretna Green also connects San Vicente to Sunset.
2) I remember all those places and events but the Sugar Plum Tree.
3) latent defiance and egocentrism and co-dependence? Ending it all? Get a grip.