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What is philosophy?

 
 
Cyracuz
 
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 06:48 am
Are there any criteria that must be met before a thought can be called philosophical? When can a person claim s/he is a philosopher? Is it the thought or the thinker that makes it philosophy?

I started thinking about this after reading the post "is philosophy useful". Think it was tcis who posted it. I spoke to a professor in philosophy hoping to get a good answer. He has studied the works of Kant for ten years to gain his degree, and the sad thing was, I discovered, that he was not able to respond with anything but a quote from some philosopher to anything I asked him. He has also written several books including one on the nature of evil. The books are full of quotes and borrowed wievpoints. So this man is a professor in philosophy. But is he a philosopher? I discovered that there was a difference. So this man was of some help, though not in the way i had expected. Based on our conversation I would claim that a philosopher is not a man who knows all about the history of philosophy. The true philosopher is not a man who has much love for books. He would rather dig in his own backyard to gain knowledge than read the reports of someone who has already dug.
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Lordregent52
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 09:12 am
I would say that a philosopher is anyone who makes a conscious effort to figure out what it is that they believe in. In this way, highly religious people are probably the least likely to be philosophers because they accept their belief and do not question it.
Your professor may read a lot of books and do a lot of research because he wants to investigate different viewpoints that he might consider, or he may do so because it is his job. Chances are, I think, that despite his canned speeches he is a philosopher. For his sake, I hope he is, because it would be a very unhappy life to spend that much time investigating something about which he had already made up his mind.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 06:59 am
I both agree and disagree with you lordregent. I agree about the concious effort to figure out what they believe in. But is it really the question that is the key? Maybe it is the inabillity to accept any answer that makes a person a philosopher.

Quote:
Your professor may read a lot of books and do a lot of research because he wants to investigate different viewpoints that he might consider, or he may do so because it is his job. Chances are, I think, that despite his canned speeches he is a philosopher. For his sake, I hope he is, because it would be a very unhappy life to spend that much time investigating something about which he had already made up his mind.


I agree. But I still have no clear idea about what makes a person a philosopher. I would say it is about the persons attitude towards everything, but I am not sure I agree with myself...
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extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 12:41 pm
Cyracuz wrote:
I both agree and disagree with you lordregent.... but I am not sure I agree with myself...


With these opening and closing remarks, I'd say you are well on your way to becoming a philosopher. Very Happy

Seriously, perhaps a dictionary definition would help us get a point to take off from:

philosopher:
1.A student of or specialist in philosophy.
2.A person who lives and thinks according to a particular philosophy.
3.A person who is calm and rational under any circumstances.

These definitions aren't that helpful--the first two simply use the word philosophy to define philosopher. So, here's some definitions for

philosophy:
1.Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2.Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3.A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4.The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5.The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6.The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7.A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8.A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

From this, it appears that indeed, most anyone can call themselves a philosopher. Just like anyone can call themselves an artist. Others may despise your philosophy (or art), but that doesn't stop you from doing your thing. It appears that, at the very least though, one would hope that the aspiring philosopher would employ some logic, discipline, consistency and critical analysis, among other things, in their pursuit.

On the other hand, there are "foolish philosophers" who seem to use little logic, who sometimes touch on realistic truths as much as the most intellectual of philosophers.

So, in the final analysis, I believe anyone can call themselves a philosopher. Anyone from a Ph.D. in philosophy who has published several philosophy books to your neighborhood gas station attendant. We may not think much of their philosophy, but so what? Van Gogh wasn't much appreciated until after his death. And he didn't have extremely extensive classical art training.
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Thalion
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 02:50 pm
The study of the how and the why of the nature of nature.
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john-nyc
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 05:57 pm
Re: What is philosophy?
Cyracuz wrote:
Are there any criteria that must be met before a thought can be called philosophical? When can a person claim s/he is a philosopher? Is it the thought or the thinker that makes it philosophy?

I started thinking about this after reading the post "is philosophy useful". Think it was tcis who posted it. I spoke to a professor in philosophy hoping to get a good answer. He has studied the works of Kant for ten years to gain his degree, and the sad thing was, I discovered, that he was not able to respond with anything but a quote from some philosopher to anything I asked him. He has also written several books including one on the nature of evil. The books are full of quotes and borrowed wievpoints. So this man is a professor in philosophy. But is he a philosopher? I discovered that there was a difference. So this man was of some help, though not in the way i had expected. Based on our conversation I would claim that a philosopher is not a man who knows all about the history of philosophy. The true philosopher is not a man who has much love for books. He would rather dig in his own backyard to gain knowledge than read the reports of someone who has already dug.


The was a guy in the bible who said, "There is nothing new under the sun." What he meant was there was nothing new to think. Every thought that could be brought to mind has already been thought by someone else.
So while it seems like a true philosopher might, on his own, think of something new, he will discover that someone else has already had the thought before. Whats worse is the prior thinker probably explored the idea more thoroughly.

That doesn't mean that you should swear off philosophy just because you have a slim chance of coming up with something new.

Occasionally (once a century, or so) someone comes up with a truly original idea about life or nature, but that is a rare thing and those that do are the really deep thinkers. They get studied by the rest of us. And we find ourselves agreeing with some of them and disagreeing with others.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 08:53 am
Thanks extramedium. Many good suggestions, and your post gave me an idea also.. Smile

Well, the word philosophy comes from two greek words: The first one, wich philo- comes from means wisdom, and the second is sofia, wich means love. So Philosophy means "love for wisdom". In this sense of the word, a philosopher is one who forsakes all his knowledge, makes all the mistakes and gains wisdom.
Example: You do not smoke, because your parents told you that it is damaging. So that smoking is dangerous is knowledge to you. Then you start smoking, and after a while you experience that smoking is indeed harmfull, and at last it is not mere knowledge to you, but wisdom. The path to wisdom lies in forsaking knowledge.

Then the definition of philosophy would be: The process of turning knowledge to wisdom.

So you see john/nyc, there may be nothing new under the sun, but ignorance and presumtion was there all along. What is important is not wether or not the thought is new or not under the sun. Only wether it is new or not under your hair.. Smile
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extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 11:51 am
Cyracuz wrote:
In this sense of the word, a philosopher is one who forsakes all his knowledge, makes all the mistakes and gains wisdom.
Example: You do not smoke, because your parents told you that it is damaging. So that smoking is dangerous is knowledge to you. Then you start smoking, and after a while you experience that smoking is indeed harmfull, and at last it is not mere knowledge to you, but wisdom. The path to wisdom lies in forsaking knowledge.
Then the definition of philosophy would be: The process of turning knowledge to wisdom.


Cyracuz,

I think there is truth in this idea, ie: one must learn certain things on their own, regardless of what "wise elders" might tell them. Especially when "wise elders" disagree on what is best, give conflicting advice, etc. Then there is the fact that the world has laid out so many rules, everyone is saying they know it all, etc., that sometimes it seems that if you blindly just follow everything that has been learned, you will become a robot and not a human. One must learn some things for one self. I have went down this path, and learned some great things, but also took it too far at times, and suffered unnecessary loss due to taking this direction too extreme. I know what you are saying: I went through a period where I thought "I must forsake all knowledge and find out everything firsthand for myself." On the one hand its great. On the other hand, some problems lie there. For one thing, life is just so short, you'll spend a lot of time reinventing various wheels, and may not make it as far as you might if you accept certain truths that wise people have struggled to learn. It can also be downright dangerous. I finally had to sort of come to the conclusion on many issues that "If several wise people that I respect who have had real experience in this area, have come to this conclusion on this issue, I am going to tend to believe it, unless I see a very good reason not to."

There is some danger in this path of "I've heard this isn't a good thing to do, but I must learn it for myself." For example, let's say someone warns you it is very harmful to inject heroin. And you think "hmmm....they may be right, but I've got to find out for myself." Next thing you know you're hopelessly addicted, have AIDS, etc. Thats an extreme example, but there are all kinds of examples out there that aren't so obvious, yet can still harm you.

I saw my grandfather die a long slow death from lung cancer. 2 pack a day smoker. That was good enough for me to never want to smoke. I didn't need to go "learn it for myself" after that. I had friends who died or were paralyzed after being in Vietnam 3 weeks. That was good enough for me to realize one needs to be darn sure of the merits of a war before they pick up a gun. Some people I went to school with experimented with heroin, crack, and various other drugs. Most of them are dead or in jail now. I had friends who ignored warnings and had dated girls, had undprotected s-x without even hardly knowing them, and ended up paying child support to some woman they didn't know or like for 18 years. These people all had to find out things for themself.

Sometimes learning certain wisdom for yourself can cost you, dearly. There are times that I think its good to take people's word for things. Especially if it has been proven by several studies via science, etc. I've made some mistakes (tech stock investments,etc.) that I am still paying for, years after the mistake. Experts warned me at the time, but "I had to find out for myself." Yes, I guess I'm wiser now. But that wisdom cost me years of work, and I think I could be just as wise in this area without "directly finding out for myself." So, what I'm saying is, if you really are going to take this path, be cautious: there are some mistakes that can cost you very dearly, and the risks aren't always necessary to gain wisdom.

I think balance is a good word. I think its great to find out some things for one's self. But its like walking a tightrope. Its easy to get foolish about it. If one experiments and harms their mind, body, or soul beyond repair in this life, that is going to stop one on the journey to wisdom.

Jeez, that sounded like a lecture.
I'm just saying, be VERY careful when you decide to "forsake all knowledge and learn things for yourself." Very Happy
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john-nyc
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Aug, 2004 01:48 pm
Yeah! Like that!
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