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Brexit. Why do Brits want Out of the EU?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 23 Jul, 2016 01:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
[...]Bill Cash, Conservative MP for Stone, told The Independent that Britain cannot remain inside the market, stating “If you’re out, you’re out,” and comparing the UK’s relationship to the EU with that of Japan and the US.

“You cannot remain… the 1972 Act has to be repealed as the only constitutional political act, which follows from the vote to leave the European Union,” he said. “There is no other way open to anyone. If you’re out, you’re out… therefore you can’t engage in an integrated process. You are thereby outside like America is, like Japan is – it’s no big deal, it’s perfectly simple,” he said.

He added: “Once we repeal the Act we can’t remain inside that market. Access to the market is a misnomer. I’m not saying you won’t trade with them but it’s just a misnomer.”

It is unclear how Mr Johnson would achieve his aims in the face of such vocal opposition from the 27 other EU member states. Several EU leaders have already categorically said there can be no relaxation of the EU’s four freedoms – people, goods, capital, and services – if Britain wants access to the single market. And after the Leave campaign winning on a promise to cut immigration, Prime Minister Theresa May will be under great pressure to get a deal that does not include acquiescence to freedom of movement rules.
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 24 Jul, 2016 07:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
[...]Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, the piece of legislation allowing a country to exit the European Union, will be triggered before the General Election, the Conservative Party chairman has said.

Patrick McLoughlin, newly-installed in Theresa May’s government, said it would be “very difficult” for an early General Election to be called, but that the process of Brexit definitely would be started before then.
[...]
Although the EU referendum result is not legally enforceable, Mr McLoughlin said: “I’m quite clear that the referendum result is binding on Parliament. Technically it isn’t, but I’m clear that it is binding on Parliament.”

“The Prime Minister has made it very clear that Brexit means Brexit.”

When pushed by the host, he continued: “Brexit means that we’re coming out of the European Union. We want to see our own borders under our own control and we obviously want to see the best we can for British investment.”
Source
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sun 24 Jul, 2016 08:00 am
How David Cameron’s Plan To Screw Labour Cost Him The EU Referendum

In the last days before the EU referendum David Cameron and his team of Remain campaigners were still frantically trying to get young people’s attention. 18-34 year olds, the polls had said, were Britain’s great unharvested crop of Remainers. And everyone agreed that if enough of them turned out on June 23rd, it was in the bag.

...

Yesterday, hidden within the cache of information dumped on the government website before ministers went to recess, was a clue as to what went wrong: a written statement by Gary Streeter, a spokesperson for the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, which showed a full nine percentage point drop between 10th June 2014 and 1st December 2015 in the number of 18-19 year olds registered to vote.

...

The change {a motion to change the responsibility for signing up to vote from households to individuals} had been due for December 2016 - plenty of time for voters accidentally left off the new list to get their act together and re-register. But Cameron had wanted to rush it through more than a year early. The reason? Those likely to be accidentally left off the new list were Labour voters.

...

Cameron did it to screw Labour in this year’s elections - those of London’s mayor, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh National Assembly - but also to skew an upcoming constituency boundary reform vastly in his favour. This redrawing of boundaries is to be based on a snapshot of the electorate from December 2015, thus - as least as far as yesterday’s figures indicate - permanently disenfranchising many thousands of Britain’s young, whether they re-register now or not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/how-david-cameron-plan-to-screw-labour-cost-him-the-eu-referendum_uk_5790bae5e4b0e3583c789316?edition=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk


More revelations from the massive end-of-sitting document dump: another take on what went wrong with the Brexit referendum, and another example of the Tories sacrificing the country's interests for electoral gain and party politics.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 26 Jul, 2016 12:22 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Finally, it really seems to be noted that although "Brexit means Brexit" it isn't an easy divorce:

May goes on tour to find out what it all means
Quote:
It’s going to be a fun few months.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jul, 2016 06:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The most specific timetable to be set out by a UK cabinet minister since the referendum a month ago:

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has said he expects the issue of Britain’s relations with the EU to be resolved by 2020, the date of the next election.
He has suggested the UK will not trigger article 50, which starts the clock on the UK’s negotiations to withdraw from the EU, until early in the new year, and said he does not expect the UK to join a customs union with the EU.

Source: WSJ (paywall)

Edit: summary at the Guardian
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 27 Jul, 2016 05:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Michel Barnier has been appointed as the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator.

He's a former EU Commissioner for Internal Markets, (served in various French cabinets as Minister of the Environment Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and Foreign Minister,), a conservative [Union for a Popular Movement (UMP)], Vice President of the European People's Party (EPP).

Barnier’s official title will be chief negotiator "in charge of leading the Commission Taskforce for the Preparation and Conduct of the Negotiations with the United Kingdom under Article 50 of the TEU".
He will not start in his role until 1 October.

PM May continues her diplomacy tour of Europe with a visit to Italy on Wednesday to meet Prime Minister Matteo Renzi in Rome. This will be followed by a trip to Slovakia and Poland on Thursday where she is expected to engage with the European leaders on Brexit. A Number 10 spokesman said Mrs May wanted an early visit to Italy after becoming PM earlier this month, because of the close relations it has with the UK.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 28 Jul, 2016 12:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Lloyds Banking Group has today announced that it is going to axe 3,000 jobs and close 200 branches across the UK.

The bank said that it is bracing for a cut in interest rates following the UK’s decision to quit the European Union.

Lloyds, the country’s largest retail bank, hopes the move will save £400million by the end of next year.

The bank said in a statement: ‘Given the uncertainty, it is too early to determine the impact on our formal longer term guidance at this stage.

‘However, while the business will remain highly capital generative, it is possible that this capital generation may be somewhat lower in future years than previously guided.’

Earlier this week Natwest said that it could deal with negative interest rates by charging customers. Along with RBS, they wrote to 1.3million business and commercial banking customers warning them of what could happen.
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 1 Aug, 2016 12:39 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Europeans living in the UK before June 23 must have the right to remain permanently writes the Financial Times
Quote:

First, it is the humane thing to do. Millions of Europeans have come to the UK in good faith, buying houses, taking up employment and putting their children in schools. It is right to end the uncertainty for them and their families, especially given signs of heightened xenophobia following the referendum decision.

Second, it would provide reassurance for UK employers who are uncertain how long they can legally keep hold of their European staff. In recent weeks, leading figures in the National Health Service and in higher education have called on the government to clarify their residency rights as quickly as possible, warning that Britain’s hospitals and universities rely heavily on EU workers. The same concerns affect business. EU nationals account for 31 per cent of workers in food manufacturing, for example, and 21 per cent in hotels and other accommodation.

Third, Mrs May’s concern about the actions EU governments could take against British expatriates looks overdone. In the aftermath of Brexit, a country like Spain, which hosts hundreds of thousands of UK expats, would run the risk of swift retaliation against the tens of thousands of Spanish nationals living in Britain if they were to change residency rights for Brits in Andalusia.
[...]
It would also send a timely message of goodwill towards the EU before the difficult negotiations ahead.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 3 Aug, 2016 07:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The eurozone's economy is shaking off fears about the impact of Britain's vote to leave the European Union and has seen "little overall contagion" from the vote, according to the latest PMI data released by Markit on Wednesday morning.
Source

Quote:
Britain just got its first concrete sign that the British exit from the European Union, or Brexit, will crush the nation's economy after a grim set of PMI data released by Markit on Friday morning showed a "dramatic deterioration" in the economy since the UK voted to leave the EU.
Source
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 3 Aug, 2016 11:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Bookmakers have shortened their odds that Article 50 — the two-year notice period the must give to officially leave the EU — will never be triggered.

2018 or later or not at all — 6/4
January 1 to March 31 2017 — 9/4
April 1 to June 30 2017— 3/1
July 1 to September 302017 — 7/1
October 1 to December 31 2016 — 9/1
October 1 to December 31 2017— 9/1
July 1 to September 20 2016— 33/1

Source and full report: Bookmakers have lost faith in Article 50 ever being triggered
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 4 Aug, 2016 05:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
http://i67.tinypic.com/i56wcg.jpg

That’s a new record low (lowest since 322 years) and shows that the central bank is trying to protect the economy from a downturn by easing monetary policy.
Sterling has slumped by more than 1.5 cents against the US dollar in the last few minutes, to $1.315. That suggests that the Bank of England has gone further than traders had expected.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 4 Aug, 2016 05:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The BoE has hiked its inflation forecasts, too, as well as cutting its growth forecasts.
It now believes prices will be rising by more than 2% in 2018, as the weak pound pushes up the cost of imported goods

http://i68.tinypic.com/f3dzpi.jpg
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 4 Aug, 2016 04:32 pm
Clearly the sky is falling in on the UK !

Actually I suspect they will come out of it OK and likely better off for the transition. That said the road ahead will be complex indeed: will Scotland take a different path? How will the complex transition proceed and with what unexpected side effects? (some of which Walter has already suggested), etc. Despite that lots of uncertainty ahead.

It is easy to forget that there are or would be risks ahead for the UK attendant to the alternative of remaining withing the EU. The continuing refugee crisis across the union; the still unresolved North South divide in terms of public debt and economic growth; and the potential for further issues arising from still unresolved soverignty issues in the continuing growth of a largely bureaucratic state governing apparatus in Brussels prominently among them.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2016 05:02 pm
@georgeob1,
It's going to be complex making deals with each country. That's also going to be costly.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sat 6 Aug, 2016 10:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
Probably so. The problem here is that history doesn't reveal its alternatives. We'll never really know how things would have turned out had Britain stayed in the EU.

The fact however remains that there has been a serious and continuing undemocratic element in th egrowth of the Union. Had it aspired to a less detailed and comprehensive rule from Brussels, and contented itself with acting as an alliance and union of sovereign states the current issues might not have been so controversial, both in the UK and other EU nations.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 6 Aug, 2016 10:41 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The fact however remains that there has been a serious and continuing undemocratic element in the growth of the Union.

I don't know of other similar institutions - what is your parameter of "serious and continuing undemocratic element" here?

Alternatively it can be compared e.g. to the situation in the UK or USA, but those are independent countries.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sat 6 Aug, 2016 11:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
http://www.businessinsider.com/mark-carney-bank-of-england-negative-interest-rates-2016-8

Quote:
So Carney is saying he doesn't like what he sees across the rest of Europe and in Japan, and the UK won't be joining them in their negative experiment.

It's a bold bet. If the UK economy recovers, then Carney will look like a genius. And all those other guys — Mario Draghi at the ECB, Thomas Jordan at the SNB, Stefan Ingves at the Riksbank in Sweden, Lars Rhode in Denmark and Japan's Haruhiko Kuroda — will not.


Mr. Carney proved to be a wizard during the most recent recession, keeping Canada out of the trouble the US got into. Hopefully he can do the same for the UK.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 6 Aug, 2016 11:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I think you lilely already knew what I was referring to; namely ifnoring and bypassing the results of national referenda with administratively executed treaties. We have discusssed this at some length before.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 6 Aug, 2016 11:41 am
@georgeob1,
Well, I'm glad that the results of all referenda in the USA are dealt with democratically. Wink
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sat 6 Aug, 2016 12:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I don't think we have a serious issues with ignored referenda in this country. On the contrary, here in California where they are too common, we have frequent referenda, all deceptively worded, generally put forward by various interest groups to get directed funding for favored programs through generaslly hidden new taxes. I dutifully vote against them all.

We are not immune to the growth of a bureaucratic state either. Self-styled "progressives" ( = people who claim to exclusively know what's good for the rest of us. and who wish to be judged on the supposed goodness of their intentions, as opposed to the results they actually achieve) have significantly expanded the authoritarian reach of our government bureaucracies, to the detriment of our economy and freedom.

My point about the EU is that it has streadily extended the reach of its governing apparatus well beyond the legitimacy of its democratically authorized charter. It did this, in part, by ignoring the results of referenda, and bypassing them through administratively enacted treaties. I suspect that is a fundamental cause of the debate we see about it in France, even Italy and several Eastern European nations. People aren't stupid, and they remember such things.
 

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