Elliot Rodger

@firefly,

Quote:

Racking up a high body count in one location was not his motivation, had it been, he could probably have killed even more people on the street just with his guns. But he really hadn't planned an act of mass murder, he planned a series of acts of murder, in different places and ways, and the only common factor between them was that the intended victims were his personal target groups. That's why, compared to a true mass murderer, his body count was relatively low--he never had an organized plan for mass murder.

I do love the way you analyse which to me, the purpose is to think further.

Just a thought... His initial intention was to get into the Sorority House where he intended to go in with guns blazing, 4 I believe he had and 400 rounds of ammunition. To me that suggest that his actual intent after killing his Step-Mom, the flat mates and anyone he could lure inside off course was retribution I agree but also, I believe he fell short, he wanted to kill a lot more, he wanted the numbers but he wasn't allowed in, so as a result he reluctantly went on to shoot, run over people to gain the numbers.

The key of what you wrote was " he never had an organised plan for mass murder" I think that he did, only it back-fired.

Why look up Mass Murderers ?Which he did. I think he was thrupence short of a bob in some respects and highly intelligent in another who lived on pure fantasy and had no concept of life.

It was his retribution. I don't disagree with that at all. He wanted women and men dead preferably blondes and he expected though to get into that house. Had he, how would he have gotten out? In my opinion he wouldn't have and the rest of his killing was all he had left to do.

0 Replies

So anyway, I've wanted many times to write out a very detailed response to your request to me Found Soul. However, every time I happen to check in on this site I find myself angered and/or disgusted by the closed-minded and dare I say SENILE and out of touch with reality mentality that most of the posts on A2K seem to display.

I have to say that I've significantly lost interest in this site. There are MANY other places on the internet where intelligent people can gather without such closed minded, in-group mentality, and backwards thinking.

I think you're a very warm and intelligent person Found Soul, and there are others here I regard in a highly positive manner; but I honestly don't have much interest at all in A2K anymore. And that's solely because of the closed minded thinking of the majority of it's members.

3 Replies

@nononono,

nononono wrote:

So anyway, I've wanted many times to write out a very detailed response to your request to me Found Soul. However, every time I happen to check in on this site I find myself angered and/or disgusted

Now you know how most people feel when they read your posts.

0 Replies

@nononono,

nononono wrote:

So anyway, I've wanted many times to write out a very detailed response to your request to me Found Soul. However, every time I happen to check in on this site I find myself angered and/or disgusted by the closed-minded and dare I say SENILE and out of touch with reality mentality that most of the posts on A2K seem to display.
I have to say that I've significantly lost interest in this site. There are MANY other places on the internet where intelligent people can gather without such closed minded, in-group mentality, and backwards thinking.

You're seeing a2k during a weak period. Many of the intelligent posters don't post as much as they used to, and the lowbrow kooks are running rampant spouting name-calling.

But most of the intelligent posters are still around in the background. There is still hope for the place.

0 Replies

I returned last evening from about ten days at the Northeast Naturist Festival
in Moravia, New York. On the night of Saturday July 26 I noticed a young lad,
maybe in his 2Os, judging from appearances, at their camp fire. He sat alone;
socially inert, reminiscent of someone whom we have discussed,
as he stared silently into the flames. Theoretically, it was a social event,
but it was not working out that way for him.

I remembered someone lamenting his lonesomeness, even to the point
of undertaking despondent walks in the twilight or in the dark of night,
like Diogenes looking for an honest man, in the futile hope that
some stranger wud befriend him, tho alas: it was not to be, ultimating
in the beheading of 3 Chinamen, etc. resulting from Elliot's phobia
of taking the initiative in creating some social conversation. It was sad.

I surmised that this young fellow was shy, bashful and too timid
to open up a social conversation. Well, I don t have that phobia.
I put my chair next to his and struck up a conversation with him,
asking him if he was enjoying the Festival, his views of the world, etc.

The next day, someone invited me to go to a Polynesian buffa.
I invited the young fellow to come along and join us. He did.

I thawt it wud be wise to show him approval, respect and
acceptance in friendship, rather than isolation, in hope that
he will remain in a happy state of mind and the Chinese populace will be safe.

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I returned last evening from about ten days at the Northeast Naturist Festival

you perv you! Very Happy

Quote:

I thawt it wud be wise to show him approval, respect and
acceptance in friendship, rather than isolation, in hope that
he will remain in a happy state of mind and the Chinese populace will be safe.

Couldn't hurt...kudos.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Thank u.

While reading Elliot's Manifesto, I felt sad that no one
offered him the hand of friendship on any of his walks.
I wished that I cud travel thru time and to California
to intercept him and offer him friendship.

In the nudist restaurant (pretty good food for the Festival)
I sat down next to him and reversed the social dynamic around, to boost his ego.

I told him that I was glad that HE was around,
so that I cud have someone with whom to converse.
I made it sound like he was doing me a favor in conversing.

Actually, lonesomeness has never been much of a problem with me.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I told him that I was glad that HE was around,
so that I cud have someone with whom to converse.
I made it sound like he was doing me a favor in conversing.

Actually, lonesomeness has never been much of a problem with me.

it does seem to me that those trying to "help" Elliot after starting from the position that he was messed up did not have much success. But then in his 140 pages he mentions at least once about somebody doing exactly what you did with this boy, and Elliot talks about being grateful that someone took the time to break through to him.

Firefly and others seem to believe that Elliot was born defective, and that he was an accident waiting to happen unless the pros successfully rewired his brain with drugs........maybe, but these nature/nurture questions always get complicated to solve, and I have seen a lot of healing take place outside of the pros offices after the pros had failed. I dont any longer believe that a girl having sex with him those last couple of years would have changed much, but had it happened with he was around 15 then we have a whole new ballgame. Old farts like you taking the time to talk to him (without making him feel defective) might have helped too.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

I don't believe in Doctors using text books, in as much as in general everything is text book and then the book is shut. Has to be this reason. That's it, next.

You know I am a more soulful person.

How to you change rage, anger and get it into a happy place.

When I was 16, I left home. There was a lot of resentment which I learnt at 25 to let go and realise there really shouldn't have been, I was an awkward kid that held no fear and was a risk taker and couldn't be tamed.

The moment a "man" tried to tame me and not let me go, I'd loose it, to the extent of throwing things, screaming, smashing plates across the kitchen, running outside and crying my eyes out and reflecting wondering where this anger came from.

Then, as I became me, I let go of the anger because I liked what I was becoming inside and out, though still quite non egotistical as I couldn't see what others could.

Point being, I had it in me. That pure hatred and anger for situations I had no control over and couldn't change. I guess the added near death a couple of times added to it but it also made me who I am today, fearless which can be a good or a bad thing.

I'm been placid pretty much since I worked through a simple thing called childhood and became my own person.

Does that mean my brain was chemically wrong back then? Or was it that I was a rebel.

Does that mean that I found inner peace and used my brain which is the strongest part of our entire being and as such I don't have an angry bone in my body and haven't for over 27 years, I don't know.

Was it that people believed in me, and liked me I don't know.

Will I get judged for this? I don't care Smile

The bottom line is there are no hang-ups I am happy within myself, no anger and I do think that it "can" boil down to peace.

If he had found peace I wonder if he should have been shipped to his native land and made to feel a normal person in his own body and culture instead of being a white boy that wasn't a white boy and couldn't handle it.

Who knows Hawkeye.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Smiles big.

Lovely thing to do OSD.

0 Replies

@nononono,

nonononono

In a way, I wrote my 2nd to last post for you to read.

You have a lot of anger in you and can't work out how to mix within this field of many races, or nationalities, age group, personalities .

Yet, if polite even if you don't agree, no one has a go at you, if they do, you remain polite. Why? Because we all deserve respect in life.

It's easy to bash and be bashed. I'd like to think you are a better person and I believe those that you feel bash you, have also sat back when you've been polite and watched and not continued, until you come on and do it again.

Even in this thread, your post and thank you for your words, you couldn't just keep it directed at me which is a shame as I think there is a lot about you that is nice and could be ok, you still had to bash.,

I truly would love you to sit back and think..... And stay...

This group of people are people you could learn a lot from and contribute in friendship as well as showing your own intelligence.

It really honestly is that simple.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

DAVID wrote:

I told him that I was glad that HE was around,
so that I cud have someone with whom to converse.
I made it sound like he was doing me a favor in conversing.

Actually, lonesomeness has never been much of a problem with me.

hawkeye10 wrote:

it does seem to me that those trying to "help" Elliot
after starting from the position that he was messed up
did not have much success. But then in his 140 pages he mentions
at least once about somebody doing exactly what you did with this boy,
and Elliot talks about being grateful that someone took the time to break through to him.

Minimally, it breaks the monotony
or any self-conscious social tension of being a "wallflower."

hawkeye10 wrote:

Firefly and others seem to believe that Elliot was born defective,
and that he was an accident waiting to happen unless the pros
successfully rewired his brain with drugs........

I have no opinion of that,
for lack of sufficient information. She might well be right.

hawkeye10 wrote:

maybe, but these nature/nurture questions always get complicated
to solve, and I have seen a lot of healing take place outside of the
pros offices after the pros had failed. I dont any longer believe that
a girl having sex with him those last couple of years would have
changed much, but had it happened with he was around 15 then
we have a whole new ballgame.

Old farts like you taking the time to talk to him
(without making him feel defective) might have helped too.

I recall a super-beautiful actress, Ivy, a shockingly beautiful girl
whom I was dating in NY in another century. During extended discussions
over dinner I kept silently reminding myself of her beauty,
because I kept forgetting about it. Similarly, that also applies to age.

I 'd have been careful (NOT to say successful) to avoid hurting Elliot's ego.

David

0 Replies

Found Soul,

So, this isn't really what I'd consider my "diagnoses" of Elliot Rodger, but because I never wrote that out for you, I thought that I could at least give you a few thoughts on why men idealize women, and why being a virgin or not having access to women could contribute to mental illness and social problems.

Biological factors:

A concept for lack of a better term to be referred to as "Pussy Novelty".

As much as men love women, it's not a secret that after having sex (i.e. ejaculating), men often feel an urge to be as far away from the woman they just had sex with as possible. It's a very NORMAL male feeling, to want to be ANYWHERE else other than with her in those moments after copulation.

You can take ANY man and pair him with the most beautiful woman on earth. After he's had sex with her repeatedly over an extended period of time, he's eventually going to lose interest in having sex with her. And the reason this occurs even with incredibly beautiful women is because the act of having sex with her loses it's novelty. It's simply not new and exciting anymore. It gets boring. Men are hard wired through their DNA and evolution to have sex with as many females as possible, because this gives them the highest probability of passing on their genes. Even if the purpose of sex is purely recreational. Humans carry this information in their DNA. A woman however, is hard wired to be SELECTIVE in how many and which men she has sex with. And all of this has to do with women being the limiting factor in reproduction. Men replenish their sperm basically (almost) infinity throughout their lives, whereas women can only get pregnant so many times throughout their lifetime.

Because of this, women for the majority of their lives have the option of having sex WHENEVER they chose to. Because of this, sex loses it's novelty for women. Sex becomes almost boring to most women. It's the simple law of supply and demand. For women it's readily available, not scarce.

Men however are DEPRIVED of the PRIVILEGE of being able to pick and choose amongst partners, and being able to basically have sex with as many partners as they want, whenever they want it. Because of this, men often attribute idealized qualities to both women and sex that simply don't hold weight in reality. In reality because men don't have the privilege of having sex with multiple partners whenever they choose, they're unable to recognize sex (and more specifically women) as the OVERVALUED commodity that it is. Whereas women are essentially allowed to take it for granted.

Some men are so inexperienced with sex that because it's such a rarity for them, when a woman FINALLY takes interest in them, their brain becomes so overtaken by the NOVELTY of this RARE experience that they become the equivalent to a person suffering from an EXTREME mental disorder. They will turn their back on their friends and family just to maintain this unrealistic view of this "perfect" woman who has decided to sleep with them.

Part of why this is, is because boys and men are exposed to hyper sexulized and idealized images of women CONSTANTLY. Literally these images are being FORCED down men and boy's throats all the time. At the same time as all these tits and asses are being SHOVED in their faces, society is telling males to "treat women with dignity and respect." To be "A good guy". Society and women have chosen to keep men in a NEVERENDING state of sexual arousal, while keeping the ACTUAL act of sex as SCARCE as possible. This is mind control and/or behavior control, pure and simple.

This is why men who don't have much experience with women get angry when they see the "bad boy", who treats women like **** after he gets what he wants. And these "bad boys" get what they want (sex from women) repeatedly. These inexperienced men say "Look how that guy treats her like ****. I'd give my left arm for a girl like her. I'd treat her special!"

What it is that the (bad boy) man who gets all these women knows that the inexperienced man doesn't know? What he knows is that the VAST majority of these women who he beds are some of the most BORING, UNINTERESTING, intellectually devoid human beings that the human species has ever produced.

The man who isn't getting any women views these women as sirens singing their rhapsody's from a faraway shore, and this clouds his vision/judgement. This man in his vision sees a mountain of glittering gold on the shore.

The other man, the bad boy who gets all the women has been through this LONG ago. This man actually jumped into the ocean and swam to this shore to meet these sirens and capture this "gold". At one time he thought he heard a million different siren songs coming from the shore. Now he only hears one song; or he asks himself was he hearing the same song all along? This man takes a look around and realizes that all the "gold" that he had viewed from afar is in fact pyrite/fool's gold.

This "bad boy" realizes that women/sex are OVER VALUED COMMODITIES that don't for the most part add value to a man's life, and that women ALLOW themselves to be these things of their OWN FREE WILL. Most women view men as utilities in the service of them. They view men as beings who are willing to "jump overboard" and risk life and limb to get to them and serve them.

Unlike women, men know that they (men) are they ONLY ones who are looking out for them. A woman can marry and rely on (at least) another income to help support her (if she's not being completely supported). Men instinctively know that if they don't exhibit enough utility in the eyes of women, they won't be able to pair off with one. And they know that they can ONLY rely on themselves at the end of the day for the provisions they require.

And that's why men value people who TRULY appreciate them so much. It's because they know that if someone REALLY tries to get to know them, that's because they have an actual interest in them as a human being. These people are NOT merely interested in them for their utility/what they can do for them. And ODDLY enough most (but not all) of these people are other men!

2 Replies

@nononono,

nononono wrote:

Found Soul,

So, this isn't really what I'd consider my "diagnoses" of Elliot Rodger, but because I never wrote that out for you, I thought that I could at least give you a few thoughts on why men idealize women, and why being a virgin or not having access to women could contribute to mental illness and social problems.

Biological factors:

A concept for lack of a better term to be referred to as "Pussy Novelty".

As much as men love women, it's not a secret that after having sex (i.e. ejaculating), men often feel an urge to be as far away from the woman they just had sex with as possible. It's a very NORMAL male feeling, to want to be ANYWHERE else other than with her in those moments after copulation.

You can take ANY man and pair him with the most beautiful woman on earth. After he's had sex with her repeatedly over an extended period of time, he's eventually going to lose interest in having sex with her. And the reason this occurs even with incredibly beautiful women is because the act of having sex with her loses it's novelty. It's simply not new and exciting anymore. It gets boring. Men are hard wired through their DNA and evolution to have sex with as many females as possible, because this gives them the highest probability of passing on their genes. Even if the purpose of sex is purely recreational. Humans carry this information in their DNA. A woman however, is hard wired to be SELECTIVE in how many and which men she has sex with. And all of this has to do with women being the limiting factor in reproduction. Men replenish their sperm basically (almost) infinity throughout their lives, whereas women can only get pregnant so many times throughout their lifetime.

Because of this, women for the majority of their lives have the option of having sex WHENEVER they chose to. Because of this, sex loses it's novelty for women. Sex becomes almost boring to most women. It's the simple law of supply and demand. For women it's readily available, not scarce.

Men however are DEPRIVED of the PRIVILEGE of being able to pick and choose amongst partners, and being able to basically have sex with as many partners as they want, whenever they want it. Because of this, men often attribute idealized qualities to both women and sex that simply don't hold weight in reality. In reality because men don't have the privilege of having sex with multiple partners whenever they choose, they're unable to recognize sex (and more specifically women) as the OVERVALUED commodity that it is. Whereas women are essentially allowed to take it for granted.

Some men are so inexperienced with sex that because it's such a rarity for them, when a woman FINALLY takes interest in them, their brain becomes so overtaken by the NOVELTY of this RARE experience that they become the equivalent to a person suffering from an EXTREME mental disorder. They will turn their back on their friends and family just to maintain this unrealistic view of this "perfect" woman who has decided to sleep with them.

Part of why this is, is because boys and men are exposed to hyper sexulized and idealized images of women CONSTANTLY. Literally these images are being FORCED down men and boy's throats all the time. At the same time as all these tits and asses are being SHOVED in their faces, society is telling males to "treat women with dignity and respect." To be "A good guy". Society and women have chosen to keep men in a NEVERENDING state of sexual arousal, while keeping the ACTUAL act of sex as SCARCE as possible. This is mind control and/or behavior control, pure and simple.

This is why men who don't have much experience with women get angry when they see the "bad boy", who treats women like **** after he gets what he wants. And these "bad boys" get what they want (sex from women) repeatedly. These inexperienced men say "Look how that guy treats her like ****. I'd give my left arm for a girl like her. I'd treat her special!"

What it is that the (bad boy) man who gets all these women knows that the inexperienced man doesn't know? What he knows is that the VAST majority of these women who he beds are some of the most BORING, UNINTERESTING, intellectually devoid human beings that the human species has ever produced.

The man who isn't getting any women views these women as sirens singing their rhapsody's from a faraway shore, and this clouds his vision/judgement. This man in his vision sees a mountain of glittering gold on the shore.

The other man, the bad boy who gets all the women has been through this LONG ago. This man actually jumped into the ocean and swam to this shore to meet these sirens and capture this "gold". At one time he thought he heard a million different siren songs coming from the shore. Now he only hears one song; or he asks himself was he hearing the same song all along? This man takes a look around and realizes that all the "gold" that he had viewed from afar is in fact pyrite/fool's gold.

This "bad boy" realizes that women/sex are OVER VALUED COMMODITIES that don't for the most part add value to a man's life, and that women ALLOW themselves to be these things of their OWN FREE WILL. Most women view men as utilities in the service of them. They view men as beings who are willing to "jump overboard" and risk life and limb to get to them and serve them.

Unlike women, men know that they (men) are they ONLY ones who are looking out for them. A woman can marry and rely on (at least) another income to help support her (if she's not being completely supported). Men instinctively know that if they don't exhibit enough utility in the eyes of women, they won't be able to pair off with one. And they know that they can ONLY rely on themselves at the end of the day for the provisions they require.

And that's why men value people who TRULY appreciate them so much. It's because they know that if someone REALLY tries to get to know them, that's because they have an actual interest in them as a human being. These people are NOT merely interested in them for their utility/what they can do for them. And ODDLY enough most (but not all) of these people are other men!

He can just find a nice brothel; easier, no problems.

David

2 Replies

@nononono,

Odd as I never feel any need to get away from a sexual partner after intercourse and my wife who have been a sexual partner of mine since 1985 still take my breathe away.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Odd as I never feel any need to get away from a sexual partner
after intercourse and my wife who have been a sexual partner of mine
since 1985 still take my breathe away.

I join in that sentiment.
Methinks he doth project too much.

David

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

He can just find a nice brothel; easier, no problems.

Some of your responses David...

When you respond with such simplistic statements to such a lengthy and thoughtful post, it makes me feel like you're not much of a "Thinker"....

2 Replies

@nononono,

But it was so appropriate. You can't stand women, but want their sex parts. He's right. Get ye to a brothel, young man.

3 Replies

@Lash,

Quote:

But it was so appropriate. You can't stand women, but want their sex parts.

I said nothing of the sort.

You are not allowed to put words in my mouth that I never said, or to use shaming tactics on me.

Straw Man Argument

A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument. [1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

One word.

"Fear".

There are thousands of virgins that are happy, more than happy to sit back and wait. Their idea of having sex is with the right partner. Sometimes that happens and they full-filled their dream/wish and other times they are lied to or it didn't work out, it's the way the World goes.

"Fear"

It is often their Adult friends that laugh at them, think that they are sick, have a mental illness.. Makes them feel in-complete, peer pressure.

Fear of what their "Friends" think of them.

"Fear"

They feel in-complete but fear the rejection.

Men Idolize women. Some yes. Some women Idolize men..

Most virgins that complain about being one, live in Isolation, often still live with their parents have no social skills, can't leave the house, are shy but can talk the talk over a computer and often live by the computer, in their isolation.

They read about "pussy novelty, pure hate" and they conclude that it's not because they are isolated at all, it's women who isolated them.

I think using the term "pussy" is degrading. We weren't put on this Earth to offer every Tom Dick and Harry Pussy so that they can feel good.

The World is made up of different women.

Those that purely aim high, high maintenance, are not interested in the man only what he can bring to the table, her table, financially.

Those that are searching for someone to love them, be their friend, make them laugh, communicate, be intimate and visa versa.

Those that don't give a damn about anyone, so that naturally points to men too. Self absorbed.

Do we have the right to choose who we sleep with? Does it seriously boil down to the fact that we can, that we are scum on this Earth? What if we only want to sleep with someone with the thought of a long term relationship in hope that we found our partner for life? I can't see for the life of me how any guy can look at us and feel contempt because we don't want to screw around throughout our lives.

Sex is a novelty to a man who purely views it as sex.

Sex is sexual, sensual, intimate and adventurous with pure horny added in as well, to those that desire all there is with their partner of life and keep that side of their life alive.

Not all men at all, lose interest with their partner.

We live in a different world. Women work. We don't need men for their money you are putting us all in one basket. You claim all women need men for their finances and that they purely are here to service us sexually. Some women would say this is reversed .

There is no one rule.
There is people and each of us are different, yet there are certainly categories. Which we all fall into .

The word you need is "People".

People, want to be appreciated by the other sex, treated as a human being, not a sex object or financial provider.

Every Virgin has an "access"... But, fear is the biggest killer.

1 Reply

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