Similarly, the facts of neuropsychology leave any immaterial soul with nothing to do.
Leaving the notion of a soul aside, isn't our experience immaterial? For example our picture of the world is made of colours and those cannot be found in the material world because light only reaches the retina, as you know that's as far as it gets!
igm wrote:Leaving the notion of a soul aside, isn't our experience immaterial? For example our picture of the world is made of colours and those cannot be found in the material world because light only reaches the retina, as you know that's as far as it gets!
The signals representing light in our brains are patterns of material electrical pulses, travelling through a network of material nerves. Our experience of light works by comparing those signals with memories of earlier signals. The memories and comparisons are both realized in material nerve cells. Hence, although our retinas absorb all light coming in, they merely transform it from one material thing into a chain of others. There's nothing going on inside our brains that we cannot understand in terms of material, but can understand by postulating the existence of immaterial soul-stuff.
I don’t think science has gotten round to explaining ‘qualia’ or consciousness and I am referring to these. Do you believe science has explained ‘qualia’ and conciousness (they appear to be immaterial entities)?
igm wrote:I don’t think science has gotten round to explaining ‘qualia’ or consciousness and I am referring to these. Do you believe science has explained ‘qualia’ and conciousness (they appear to be immaterial entities)?
That's an interesting question, and the answer tends to depend critically on what one means by seemingly-plain English words like "explain". For purposes of this thread, though, we needn't go into this. We can simply observe that theology hasn't explained it, either. Hence, although we cannot explain everything, natural science can explain everything that we can. There is no area of human understanding to which supernaturalism adds value.
OK if you want to leave it there!
Also thanks for your posts I found them informative.
igm wrote:OK if you want to leave it there!
I've been in threads where I didn't leave it there. They all ended up in a maze of definitions, some of them circular, and with participants insisting that others use their definition. After these experiences, I doubt that online discussions like this can do justice to the science and philosophy of personal experience. For the record though, I am satisfied that Daniel Dennett's book Consciousness Explained actually does explain consciousness on a material basis. I wouldn't be surprised if other philosophers have done it in other books, too.
Fine with me. John Searle doesn't think Daniel Dennett is wrong to be a naturalist. He thinks Dennett is wrong to be a Dennett-style naturalist rather than a Searle-style naturalist. Whichever philosopher wins the argument between them, it's going to be a win for naturalism. Supernaturalism isn't even competing. (Not in this particular contest, anyway.)
Why do you like exposing this to others? So we will question ourselves? Huh? Why are you even interested in exposing anything to someone that doesn't believe as you do?
All I want people to do is question what they believe and be exposed to other view points
So we will question ourselves?
You do know AM that almost everyone on the planet did not picked thier faiths but was given it with their mother milk so in a way you are stating that it is wrong to interfere with this conditionings after adulthood.
Sorry I do not see a damn thing wrong with pointing out the logical failings of someone beliefs that they had been program into them as children before the age of reason.
Another way of expressing the title of this thread would be why do some atheists try to interfere with the religion brain washing of people done to them as defenseless children.
You have never impressed me as being a free thinker AM so if your parents was Hindus you would have manys gods not just the one in three god you worship now.