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why do we celebrate Jesus birthday on Dec 25th

 
 
adam12
 
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 01:07 am
Why do we celebrate Jesus birthday on Dec 25th, when it is not know exactly when he was born.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 5,847 • Replies: 27
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 01:29 am
Because it's done so traditionally (in those countries using the Gregorian calendar), since ... the times of Charlemagne.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 01:43 am
..."tradition" being the pagan "festival of the lights" as a counteraction to the winter solstice. (ref "I am the light of the world" JOHN 8:12)...note also Chanukah, Diwali etc.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 02:20 am
Re: why do we celebrate Jesus birthday on Dec 25th
adam12 wrote:
Why do we celebrate Jesus birthday on Dec 25th, when it is not know exactly when he was born.



Let's put this into perspective.


- in the UK, the Queen's Birthday is celebrated on the first, second, or third Saturday in June
- In New Zealand, the Queen's Birthday is celebrated on the first Monday in June
- in Australia, the Queen's Birthday is celebrated on the second Monday in June
- in Canada, the Queen's Birthday is officially celebrated on Victoria Day, which is the Monday on or before May 24th

However, the Queen's actual birthday (and we know exactly when she was born) is on April 21st.


So, if it's good for the Queen of England, it's certainly good for Jesus.

I suppose.
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 03:53 am
Adam,

Further to my earlier answer here are some details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 04:02 am
Correct, but the question actually was "why do we celebrate Jesus birthday on Dec 25th, when it is not know exactly when he was born".


No doubt that the term Yule may have derived from the Germanic jol or the Anglo-Saxon geol, which referred to the feast of the winter solstice.

But since the idea of Jesus' birthday to be celebrated at December 25 started in Rome ...

Quote:
MLA style:
"Christmas." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 16 Dec. 2007 http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9082431.
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2007 09:30 am
well everyone's buying all those presents and putting up trees anyway...
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 06:38 am
Winter solstice celebrations have been around long before Christ. This is the time of year people celebrated the rebirth of the SUN. There were some pagan beliefs the early christians could not overcome so they incorporated them into their religion. After all that's what Christianity is; mix one part Judaism and one part paganism; add some processions and celebrations along with fear and intimidation, sprinkle a dose of religious persecution and you have Christianity.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 06:44 am
Well, about the Christian origins, this wiki article summs it up pretty well:

Quote:
It is unknown exactly when or why December 25 became associated with Christ's birth. The New Testament does not give a specific date.[14] Tertullian does not mention it as a major feast day in the Church of Roman Africa. In 245, the theologian Origen denounced the idea of celebrating Christ's birthday "as if he were a king pharaoh". He contended that only sinners, not saints, celebrated their birthdays.[15]Sextus Julius Africanus popularized the idea that Christ was born on December 25 in his Chronographiai, a reference book for Christians written in AD 221.[11] This date is nine months after the traditional date of the Incarnation (March 25), now celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation. March 25 was considered to be the date of the vernal equinox and therefore the creation of Adam; early Christians believed this was also the date Christ was crucified. The Christian idea that Christ was conceived on the same date that he died on the cross is consistent with a Jewish belief that a prophet lived an integral number of years.[16] Thus, the date as a birthdate for Christ is traditional, and is not considered to be his actual date of birth.

Although the identification of the birth date of Christ is debated, liturgical celebrations of the Nativity were celebrated from at least A.D. 200 in the Christian East. The earliest reference is found in St. Clement of Alexandria's writings in reference to a celebration of the Nativity and the Epiphany. [17] Another reference is found in the Chronography of 354, an illuminated manuscript compiled in Rome in 354.[1][18] In the East, early Christians celebrated the birth of Christ as part of Epiphany (January 6), although this festival focused on the baptism of Jesus.[19]

Christmas was promoted in the Christian East as part of the revival of Catholicism following the death of the pro-Arian Emperor Valens at the Battle of Adrianople in 378. The feast was introduced to Constantinople in 379, and to Antioch in about 380. The feast disappeared after Gregory of Nazianzus resigned as bishop in 381, although it was reintroduced by John Chrysostom in about 400.[1] The Twelve Days of Christmas are the twelve days from Christmas Day to the Feast of Epiphany on January 6 that encompass the major feasts surrounding the birth of Christ. In the Latin Rite, one week after Christmas Day January 1 has traditionally been the celebration the Feast of the Naming and Circumcision of Christ, but since Vatican II, this feast has been celebrated as the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 08:19 am
Quote:


http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/saturnalia.html
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George
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 08:44 am
Good to see this question answered with only a minimum of bile.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 08:52 am
All of the celebrations involving jesus have to do with the sun and it's movement in the sky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwzDFvqfcdc&feature=related
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 09:01 am
And this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQLD59fK_Iw&feature=related
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 09:06 am
Damn interesting stuff Cyracuz.
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 09:09 am
I think so too.
That last video I posted a link to explains specifically the symbology of jesus and how it is really a tale of how the sun moves through the sky in the course of a year.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:00 pm
Nah!!

It's because we need an excuse to let it all hang out from time to time and as there are no excuses in a materialist, atheistic, scientific secular world somebody has to think one up from time to time so just remember when you are celebrating that it's all down to little Jesus.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Dec, 2007 07:12 pm
I'll remember when I'm celebrating that paganism predated Jesus.

Io saturnalia spendius.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2007 07:15 am
xingu wrote-

Quote:
I'll remember when I'm celebrating that paganism predated Jesus


Yes--that's true. It was a time when pity didn't exist.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2007 08:18 am
Pity?

Since when can materialistic Christians be associated with pity when they persecuted other religions and killed people because of their religious beliefs?

They had no more pity than the pagans.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Dec, 2007 11:53 am
Pity didn't exist before Jesus and it is not something which comes easily to human beings. Maybe you should read some stuff about pagans.

Do you think those horrors you mention were anything to do with Jesus?

Are you aware of the penance exacted on the Emperor Theodosius by Bishop Ambrose for the massacre at Thessalonica. How Nero would have laughed. And Stalin. And Saddam.

It is just lazy thinking which puts all the horrors down to Christianity.

Pity is blasphemy in the struggle for existence and survival of the fittest doctrines. I can understand an evolutionist who thinks that pity is debilitating to the human species. I can't understand the wobbly-jellies though.

And how do you know that the horrors you mention actually took place as described in some anti-Christian polemics? I can't guarantee that the penance of Theodosius took place.

The overwhelming evidence is that pity plays a large role in modern societies and it didn't before Christianity. I wonder how much non-Christian societies provide for disaster victims.

It's a long job xingu and because it is difficult doesn't mean we should throw the towel in.
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