When has religion irked you personally and why?

LW, Did you enjoy those movies based a little on the bible?

I grew up on religious films like "The Shoah", and "The Sorrow and The Pity" (strangely both French), and real-life Nazi footage of Jews being shoveled into ovens....oy vey....'never forget' sure, but do you have to be so thorough about the process? Irked I was.

"The Bible" was like watching an accident happen so if one is entertained by that, be my guest. John Huston snorting out lines as Noah was enough for me to wish I had an airsick bag handy. I know what you mean by enjoy, though, c.i. Watching a good filmmaker blow his wad on pantomiming the Bible is more of a spectacle than the spectacle itself. I have a feeling that although I'm sure he is in deadly earnest, Mel Gibson's new epic will be another travesty and with more fake blood than every used before (a cast of thousands...of corpuscles).

I especially like the costumes (Anne Baxter in "10 Commandments" looked like she was dressed by Chanel in the final throneroom scenes) and the over-saturated color they seem to favor. The black-and-white films are more successful as they look vintage. It gives less of an impression of, "Hey, we've nothing to do this month -- let's update the Bible and make it more palatable for the lay person." The question is whose getting layed.

I saw those too, Cav, though I was already a grownup. Very different from deMille....

I grew up with Song of Bernadette and The Miracle of Fatima, don't get me started.

osso, When I visited Fatima, it was a huge disappointment, because it's really not a religious shrine but a commerical enterprise. The "miracle" is based on three children who claims to have seen the virgin mary in/near a tree. That tree is in Fatima in it's full glory.

I did the pilgrim trail through Spain to Compostela in 1993. It was very neat. One feels very close to the people of the 13th Century. Religion didn't bother me, I tuned it out.
As far as films go, nothing beats "The Name of the Rose!" Sean Connerry as the ancester of Sherlock Holmes,and the incredible naked Italian girl.....my adolscence was never the same after. Jaques LeGoff, the editor of the journal "Annales" and a very important medievalist was the tech advisor, and the monks physical characteristics all reflect their various "secret" sins, which is very much in line with Medieval Scholastic Threology. I may have to watch it again tonight.

truth
Yes, Hobitbob, The Name of the Rose was something of a masterpiece. It was clearly a work of art, not just entertainment.

I thought I've seen all the Sean Connery movies. Will have to look up "The Name of the Rose" just to peek at that Italian lady.

What's amazing is that Umberto Eco's scholastic work is so obscure to almost all but specialists, and yet he can write a gripping novel--and kudos to whoever made the film for making it every bit as good as the novel, at least to the extent that that can be accomplished on film.

Read Baudalino if you get the chance. It is at least as good. Intertwines Barabarossa and the sack of COnstantinople in the 4th Crusade.

Oooh, thanks, I will have to read these.

On Fatima, the Irish priest who was heavily involved in promoting the miracle, and was instrumental in the movie, was a friend of my parents and used to come to dinner at our house. I said many rosaries as a child. And teen.

Girl has come a long way.

Any history that includes Istanbul/Constantanople should be a enjoyable read. It's an amazing place to visit, even today.

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks


I read a truly trash novel about a kid who is drafted for the Janissaries, and it could not have been a more poorly written potboiler. The strange thing about it was, it concerned itself with 1453, and the last days of the Roman Empire, and as far as the historical background was concerned, i've seldom read anyone who took that much trouble to get it right. Too bad he couldn't write worth a tinker's damn.

I looked a few of the mentioned movies up to buy!!!! expensive

Jeab J. Annaud, who's first major release was "Quest for Fire", directed "The Name of The (Rose", and did a fine job of capturing the flavor of a typically byzantinely complex Ecco novel ... though the novel is the superior rendition of the story ... it has to be read and reread carefully to catch it all. The historical accuracy is precise, the psychology and character development are spot-on, and the "who dunnit" plot has every twist and turn imagineable. The movie does well with a couple viewings too, though. That girl .....

So the best thing I've read on the history of the
Chianti area, which is not saying much since I haven't
positioned myself in libraries there, was a book on wine by a fellow named Raymond Flower. He was one of the original/recent remodeler's, fixing up an old castello. He had the best summary of the Guelph Ghibbeline variations I've run across. Not a movie, yet.

Which reminds me. I still think the Lucrezia Borgia (revisited) story is a good one, what will all going on around her. I tried in my small way to promote a revisionist (Erlanger?) book as basis for a pic but people yawned back.

This is tangential, but maybe not, being as she was daughter of Alexander VI, who I also found interesting.

Historysmart folks here can straighten me out, but I like reading about these folks storywise.

the way you all write about good literature and history, I just know you would enjoy the works of Dorothy Dunnet. please someone try them!

they are up there with the likes of Eco

her historical research is impeccable, her characters are complex and varied, her plots twist and turn, you need to read then with the brain in gear! no skimming. you get a complex view of the smells, political intrigue, daily life, battles, scottish/english border raids, french court, Ireland, janissaries, turks, the knights st john in malta and the corruption, russia - as the characters travel. the cast of intensely believable characters is huge and rich - i learnt so much as well as it being a thoroughly enjoyable read -this refers to the series that starts with The Game of Kings.


if i was only allowed the works of one\ author it would have to be hers.

forgive the typing - kitten in one hand dozing so it's one handed.

husker, the best of the lot "Quest for Fire" is at $10.15 to buy and worth adding to anyone's DVD collection:

DVD UNIVERSE: QUEST FOR FIRE.

Try the search as I could only seem to get the link to work for their home page. You might try the other titles in search as well although I could not come up with "The Name of the Rose."

EBAY is the student's friend.

Another excellent writer of historical fiction is Sharan Newman, whose Catherine laVendeur series is set in 12th century Paris. She is actually a medievalist, her PhD is from UC Santa Barabara,and she was one of Jefferey Russell's students.

Sharan Newman