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Tue 26 Jun, 2007 08:51 am
The facts are this: when people are devoid of religion...they generally stink as humans.
Until atheism can replace religion as a VIABLE and REAL way to inner peace, with a reverence of humanity, it can never take over the world and extinguish religion.
When you get rid of one thing, it makes room for another.
Sure atheist can succeed at pointing to the flaws of religious thought, but they have nothing to replace the flaws with.
So theists choose the lesser of two evils while on earth, with the hopes of hitting the jackpot in the hereafter.
When you become successes at 'the religion of humanity,' you may become more successful at replacing religion.
Until that time..."a mans mind may be likened to a garden which may be intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether cultivated or neglected, it must and will bring forth. If no useful seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless 'weed seeds' will fall therein and will continue to produce their kind." ~ James Allen
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds.
In its history, organized atheism has never succeeded at replacing religion with real humanity and compassion.
The atheists talk a good story, but atheists fail miserably when it comes to practical application of the 'peace talk.'
And really the vast majority of atheists don't even have 'the talk' to spout, since they have no semblance of inner peace themselves in order to form a basis of 'lip service' to pontificate.
Don't know what I mean?
I'm saying that most atheists are too ignorant when the subject turns to inner peace to even lie about or pretend that they know anything about the subject.
Another reason atheists will never win, is in general it takes hatred to fuel atheism if one is a dogmatic, militant atheist.
Hatred blinds one to peace.
When you lose the hatred and militant foundation, then you do not wish to destroy others or their religion....you are at peace to let them be religious.
Sure you do not let others destroy you with religion, you tell them the facts that they run by faith, so do not get too high and mighty and start forcing you into the religion against your will.
But you only fight in a measured way of self defense, instead of the offensive atheists that sets out to destroy 'all faith based beliefs' just for the sheer joy of hurting another.
Sure tearing others down appeals to one's ego and pride, but so did torturing insects when we were kids. When we grow up we need a different way to find self worth.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds and water these seeds within you as well.
As you give so you receive.
Is that from the bible or karma?
No, it is just universal law.
Do we like to be beaten down?
Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace.
It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up to destroy it.
When I posted this paragraph earlier, an atheist piped to accuse me of hypocrisy, telling me that I destroy a potato when I pick it up to eat it, so I am a liar.
Natural law dictates I must eat, but there is no law that says I must spew venom from my mouth to destroy others.
If atheists can get over fishing for red herrings and get onto bigger fish to fry they will see a world of difference in their peace practice.
The destruction of inner peace by destroying potatoes comes about when I destroy my neighbors crop field of potatoes by poisoning them to bankrupt him in order to take over his farmland...it does not come about by eating a potato.
The God of Nature gives me potatoes to eat, the God of Inner Peace tells me to not eat potatoes in excess or to destroy others if I wish to be at peace. I cannot see either God, I know not how these God's work, I just know they are and I can abide by their guidance or be defiant to these Gods and end up destroying my life and the lives of others.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Yes, there are theists that stink. But lets look at the facts and see that the vast, vast majority of people are theists or believe in hereafter, so the pot is enormous that we draw from when we pull out examples of evildoing theists that the atheists like to parade around.
The USA was founded with God in the details. I suggest atheists that hate a religious based country like the USA move to China or Russia. Then you can live your dream right now, in your God free country.
In China, it was a common practice to execute political prisoners with one bullet to the head...then they sent the bill for the bullet to the family of the executed prisoner. That is where separation of state and religion can lead a country. Once religion is out of politics, then the only thing left in control is ego.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=380.0
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/browse_frm/thread/125b41aa8fd2b87b/cf400bdf88ba1701?lnk=gst&q=conundrum&rnum=7&hl=en#cf400bdf88ba1701
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=509.0
Now, some 'spiritually based atheist's can far surpasses many theists in kindness and virtue many times...so it just depends on what 'type of atheist' you are talking about? But these sort of atheists are very rare to encounter, as spiritual values and atheism do not generally mix.
"People that practice religion are worried about going to hell - people that practice spirituality have already been to hell and don't want to go back."
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God. They do not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts. Until they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace) they seek.
It is the same for those that think money is all that is standing between them and happiness.
So it goes for the ego and intellect based person that is devoid of spiritual values.
And if the atheists is honest they will see they do not run their lives solely by logic and are no better than the theist that runs their lives by faith.
No, logic only goes so far in life. For what is logical is not always practical when it comes to humans ... is it?
Always remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a good life. Seek balance.
Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect - but we can all do better at being humans if we try to be more humane.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
There are many flavors of atheists...natural atheists, personal atheists, explicit atheists, implicit atheists weak atheists, strong atheists, discovery atheists, reactionary atheists, indoctrinated atheists and of course the bad ass atheists with attitude aka BAAWA varieties.
But the defining characteristic that leads an atheist to peace is whether they are a 'spiritual based atheist' or 'defiance based atheist.''
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life at peace. Egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth and sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
As a freethinking agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the road takes me. I discriminate against no one. As such, I study with the Christians, the Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and even find truth as I study with the atheists.
When you practice peace promotion with others you will reap inner peace promotion. When you practice destroying others peace, you will reap self destruction of inner peace.
I suggest any atheists wishing to find inner peace within their life adopt the creed of the atheists (their version of prepackaged morals) and become secular humanists as a good first start.
The 'informal creed' of atheism.
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now."
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
this was the biggest pile of garbage i have ever read in my entire life.
im an atheist, and i have probablly more compassion than any religious person i have ever met.
I mean seriously, i can barely stand watching people OR animals get hurt.
My biggest goal in life is to find ways to end human suffering.
Does that mean my "wild garden" grew and perfectly pruned itself or someshit?
utter nonsense, religions have probally caused more suffereing than ANY OTHER INSTITUTION I CAN THINK OF.
now i remember why i stopped reading this forum. gfg im out for good LOL.
No need to shout vfr. We hear you fine. No need to cut and paste, either. Just make your point.
OGIO is right.
All humans have a basic moral sense, and by means of a device sometimes called a social contract, we have developed into a world society that is generally well ordered and humane. I say generally, because the desire for power has led to outrageous human suffering. We read about it daily. And when the politicians need soldiers to force their agendas, who will deliver the soldiers to the front? Why the preachers, of course.
Thats complete crap.
So much crap that I can't even be bothered to start picking it apart. It would take to long.
I really wanna meet all these dumb-ass-newbie-**** stirrers in person.
What is really pathetic is that the large font, bold-faced print is probably intended to make it easier to read,
and therefore to get people's attention. The fact is, however, that it stretches the screen, and so annoys people
that it is unlikely that very many people will bother to read it.
What's wrong with potatoes? Are we supposed to not eat potatoes now?
echi wrote:What's wrong with potatoes? Are we supposed to not eat potatoes now?
Uh Oh. We just bought some. We were going to buy corn, but the price is so high this year.
I feel so guilty. . .
The guy probably just came long enough to dump a load of manure. Probably won't even be back to see if we enjoy the stink.
And my potatoes taste funny. GAHHGH!
And religion does a good job at controlling the weeds
He's a PHD - He Piled it Higher & Deeper than others would dare to even think of doing.
According to Jesus "false religion" is responsible for the existence of the "weeds." (Matthew 13:24-30)
edgarblythe wrote:The guy probably just came long enough to dump a load of manure. Probably won't even be back to see if we enjoy the stink.
Yep, vfr swings by periodically to drop off a load of generally ultra stinky stuff
then graciously disappears without comment.
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