Single gender education, revisited

Who new -- it almost looks as if we disagree on this point!

:-)

Someday I'll have time to fully hash out the public school vs. school choice/ vouchers debate with you, but I don't think it'll be any time soon... partly that's because I researched it thoroughly and became convinced about 10 years ago, and my casual reading on the subject in the interim hasn't changed my mind. But it wouldn't be trivial to find all of the original research that convinced me, if only to re-create the basic convincing concepts, and you have this super-annoying tendency to require, like, facts and stats and studies and stuff instead of just taking my word for it... ;-)

That's fine. In the context of this thread, I'm happy to restrict myself to the degree of school choice that the public education system might provide. The girls-only school that produced all those Bavarian physicists was a public school. I'm pretty sure your public system could offer girls-only or boys-only charter schools -- if it wasn't for this tiny problem that gender-segregated public schools would probably be unconstitutional in America. (Correct?)

(PS: Why is my brain always making typos today that spell-checkers don't catch? This is so annoying. Thanks, brain!)

I don't think so. I think there ARE gender-segregated charter schools. Lemme check:

Yeah, first Google result:

http://educationalissues.suite101.com/article.cfm/all_male_charter_school

I see. Thanks!

If those medical lobby groups were being politically effective we would not have a crisis like situation like we do. That is off the topic I can't generalize I am the least political person you will ever find.

You guys seem to be having a very sophisticated debate here. My argument stems from the limited knowledge and personal experience. I am willing to acquire more knowledge and fortunately have 3 years to decide.

My knowledge comes from review of research by Dr.Leonard Sax. For those of you not familiar he is a MD/PHD who has a suburban washington primary care practice and an interest in research psychology which stems from what he sees in his daily practice. ME and you are talking about our own expeeriences. HE is dealing with at least 20 families each day dealing with these issues. He is trying to help them. That does not seem like a political agenda to me.

My own experience where I come from single gender education is very common. I was a upper middle class who went to so called Previliged Co-Ed schools, both of my best friends in Hi school had relationships friendly as well as romantic. We enter a six year medical track after 2 years of premed. I never had a chance to be in single gender class room. When we entered med school almost half of my female friends came from strictly single gender class rooms. My own best friends who were srtruggling with these relationship issues since 8th grade were pretty proficient at dealing with them but still were struggling. Most of the 'girls only school' grads were very sound, mature and were beginning to start mature relationships. My friends from Co ed schools would often go to them for advice. The only reason why I stayed out of trouble was because I was a bookwormish half geek type creature. Looking back I kind of count that as a blessing in disguise. I hate to be judgemental but I am considered among the most successful and happier of the whole bunch. I almost deleted that it is embarrassinfg to say that about yourself but I do not have another way of expressing that.
Adolescent and pre adolescent minds are a different State ( for lack of a better word) not just my judgement but also any parenting ot psychology book will support that.
Somethings are truly scary at least for me. Girls are clearly achieving puberty at much earlier age. Boys are clearly not doing as well and losing theit vigor and motivation. male fish in potomac river laying eggs would not be a phenomenon that I can easily ignore. If their is such a thing as Endocrine destructors and our Kids are exposed then I am going to do some extra effort on my part. I am willing to invest myself and use my best judgement that is all. I may have a different point of view in a year but this is now.

(Oh Sozobe I am not saying I am isolating my son from the other sex. just want to limit some destraction at a very vulnerable age. Family friends, sports and other extracurriculars will give him plenty of opportunity. To me at that stage in school it may be distracting for Him and then again I speak for Him only. You would know better about your child)

Ok some thoughts ere cooking on the backburner all day. Somewhere I read about trying to protect my boy from distracting girls as STUPID. That kind of generated a defensive response in me. It was not you Soz. You are more sophisticated about your choice of words and I appreciate that. I think it was a male name ( yes I also believe in Gender stereotyping)

I think my whole idea about protecting at a young age can be explained by my philosophy about screen time. Same principle operates.

If I were to say that My kids should not be watching any TV because it is bad and so I am removing my TV set or cutting the cord then you could argue about deletirious effects of this controlling pattern later. But IF I say that ata young age My child is unable to separate reality from fantasy so it is not good for his developing brain and that too much time watching it would keep him from thinking what other things could be done with that time so I am limiting that interaction then I don't think any sensible parent will have an argument. Why did american academy of pediatrics came up with NOne before 2 years and 2 hr/wk after that. Would you argue that TV is as much of a routine in a American home and life style as Co education so Limiting that and practicing that control will have deletirious effects later ? I know it seems like apples and oranges but in my Brain it is the same operating theory.

I am comfortable with the stats and facts because they seem to go along with what muy Intuition as a parent tells me.

I am asking another question. If you make a hypothesis that Education and Interacting with the opposite sex cannot happen simultaneously then which one would you want first. Focus on education and maturity of mind to deal with relationships , sexuality and opposite sex issues later or the other way around.

I am biased because I have seen that happen( to my friends, patients family members My own sister who is 21 now.) Where getting involved with the opposite sex at an earlier age became a deterrant to actually developing their personality and knowing what to look for in a quality relationship. It is worse if you actually have good looks too. You will not be left alone to focus on eduation. Now should they have developed strong personalities by then to know and resist the temptations and all ? I do not know.

I think one would only want cahnge if they see a problem. If you guys are comfortable then there is no argument but if MAjority felt this way OSSO wouild not have found the article. I would not have been already interested and you guys will not be wasting your time.

Hmm...

I think it's a real issue, I just think that the data, thus far, is mixed. I am not an expert but I studied this pretty thoroughly in the course of getting my master's in education, and have read a lot on the subject since then. I base my opinions on that research more than on my own or my daughter's experiences. (Though I do think I got a lot of benefits from my own co-ed education, even though I was actually somewhat attractive. )

I found this, first result for "single-sex education" in Google:



http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr215.shtml

The article gives an overview of the whole issue, and another reason for pause is that this idea started as a way to help girls, after the influential report in 1992 about how schools shortchange girls. Now, girls are doing so well -- in general, in co-ed settings too -- that the rationale has reversed. Now it's about helping BOYS, who are being shortchanged.



I think this shows that there are ways to adjust within the co-ed classroom, as has already been done for girls, and that it should be done for boys, too. Osso's original article indicates one way that can be done:



I'm all for that kind of innovation and reaction to problems -- within a co-ed setting.


Overall, this hits me the same way a lot of other educational trends do. Basically, teachers matter far more than pedagogy. So you have a great teacher or group of teachers with great ideas who make the ideas happen -- the groundbreakers are most always especially skilled -- and lo and behold, the great teachers get results. Then people say wow, it must be the overriding concept -- such as segregating girls and boys -- that makes the difference. Let's replicate it.

Then less-skilled teachers try to replicate it, and as it spreads, the results become less and less noticeable, until a follow-up study a while later shows that hey, the method doesn't seem to have any particular effect after all.

It's the teachers, not the pedagogy, and I think this pedagogy has more problems than aspects to recommend it in most situations.

Now, the Education World article I quoted from concludes that "single-gender academies might be the answer." Again, I do see that it's a real debate. I am just wary of the idea, for many reasons, including the reasons given above.

What I definitely would not want is for single-sex education to become the norm. I have fewer objections to going ahead and trying it here and there, seeing what happens, but the long-term results don't seem especially promising.

Thanks Soz. Will read all of this when I can have that segment of time to myself. My daughter 3yo has an open house today, I am interviewing a potenital parttime personal assistant/house keeper/personal shopper kind of candidate ( any experience there?)since the live in Nanny needs to go because " Mommy is Home "
I really apppreciate your insight what was your MAsters in?

No experience with hiring a personal assistant/ housekeeper/ personal shopper kind of person, sorry! Good luck though.

My master's was in Education (specifically Deaf Ed., but with a larger educational base).

Read the whole post with all references. You are right it is not conclusive. I do not hink any radical change is needed. Sine you are an educationalist by degree you read into it like one. Single sex schools are available and we just have to use our best judgement and anything done with the right intentions and devotion will bring favorable results. So Long.