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I challenge any Christian to watch this eye-opening video.

 
 
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 12:28 am
Let me preface the presentation of this video by stating that I'm an atheist. That said, I'm not an activist and have no agenda except for that of the education of others. I was raised Catholic and since breaking ranks from the church I've been amazed that I ever bought into the numerous seemingly ridiculous notions (omnipotent/omniscent God, afterlife, heaven/hell, prophets/messiahs etc) that my (and many other) religions present as truth.

Anyways, I found this video a few days ago and was impressed by how clearly and unequivocally it dispells ideas of Christianity's sanctity or originality and demonstrates the Bible is essentially a book of astronomy not prophecy. In addition, the video demonstrates the individual Jesus never existed and is merely a human representation of the Sun.

Therefore, I challenge any Christian to view this video. I honestly can't see how any Christian could watch and reflect on this video and maintain their faith/religion. I'm sure some will claim to view the video and be unaffected so I'm interested to hear how they refute the claims made in the video.

Here's the video, enjoy:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8461754114455236037

***EDIT: Forgot to mention it is somewhat lengthy at about 30 minutes.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,558 • Replies: 39
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 12:42 am
With all due respect, Bubba, what if I were to tell you that if you seriously read the bible, you would no longer be an atheist?

About half of what you have listed as 'ridiculous notions' were never supported by the bible and were introduced into nominal christianity by power hungry clergy wishing to ingratiate themselves with political forces. So a video claiming to dispel these strawmen would provide no evidence to undermine my belief. You'll have to do better than that.
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 12:54 am
I am a former Catholic but I have been a Buddhist for 25 years. I agree that most of what is said about Christ is bullshit though I think he did exist, albeit as a common mortal.
0 Replies
 
BubbaGumbo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 01:13 am
neologist wrote:
With all due respect, Bubba, what if I were to tell you that if you seriously read the bible, you would no longer be an atheist?

About half of what you have listed as 'ridiculous notions' were never supported by the bible and were introduced into nominal christianity by power hungry clergy wishing to ingratiate themselves with political forces. So a video claiming to dispel these strawmen would provide no evidence to undermine my belief. You'll have to do better than that.


Umm...I used to "seriously read the bible" and am now a full-fledge atheist so your point is moot.

What strawman is the video dispelling? The video clearly demonstrates that the conception of Jesus is not original and the story of his creation is merely an account of the movement of the sun. Additionally, the video identifies dozens of mythical stories, that pre-date the birth of JC, that contain a savior that was born of a virgin, born on December 25th, died on a cross, and resurrected 3 days later.

So I guess if you're belief in Christianity doesn't hinge on the fact that JC is the savior and was a real person then no this video shouldn't effect your beliefs. But if you're like 99.9% of all other Christians then this video will flatten sacred notions that you hold as the basis of your belief.

If you're so confident, why not take the time to watch the video and then respond. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
BubbaGumbo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 01:24 am
NickFun wrote:
I am a former Catholic but I have been a Buddhist for 25 years. I agree that most of what is said about Christ is bullshit though I think he did exist, albeit as a common mortal.


Why do you think he existed as a mortal? As the video clearly explains, the 40 most well-documented historians that lived in, around, or during the time of JC, who generated thousands of voluminous books, have absolutely no account of an indivdual named Jesus born of Mary who performed great feats and had a following. Shouldn't an individual who supposedly had such a marked effect on so many people during his time have been at least mentioned by a few of these historians? Simply put, there is no non-biblical historical document that states a man such as Jesus existed.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 05:48 am
BubbaGumbo wrote:
NickFun wrote:
I am a former Catholic but I have been a Buddhist for 25 years. I agree that most of what is said about Christ is bullshit though I think he did exist, albeit as a common mortal.


Why do you think he existed as a mortal? As the video clearly explains, the 40 most well-documented historians that lived in, around, or during the time of JC, who generated thousands of voluminous books, have absolutely no account of an indivdual named Jesus born of Mary who performed great feats and had a following. Shouldn't an individual who supposedly had such a marked effect on so many people during his time have been at least mentioned by a few of these historians? Simply put, there is no non-biblical historical document that states a man such as Jesus existed.


It is considered a historical fact that Jesus once lived and was crucified. This video has little credibility compared to the community of historians.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 06:15 am
Coolwhip wrote:
BubbaGumbo wrote:
NickFun wrote:
I am a former Catholic but I have been a Buddhist for 25 years. I agree that most of what is said about Christ is bullshit though I think he did exist, albeit as a common mortal.


Why do you think he existed as a mortal? As the video clearly explains, the 40 most well-documented historians that lived in, around, or during the time of JC, who generated thousands of voluminous books, have absolutely no account of an indivdual named Jesus born of Mary who performed great feats and had a following. Shouldn't an individual who supposedly had such a marked effect on so many people during his time have been at least mentioned by a few of these historians? Simply put, there is no non-biblical historical document that states a man such as Jesus existed.


It is considered a historical fact that Jesus once lived and was crucified. This video has little credibility compared to the community of historians.


Although there is certainly a large community of alleged historians with a stake in the question of the existence of the putative Jesus, it is complete BS to say that it is considered historical fact. Historians without a Christian agenda, many of them, think that it is probable that such an individual existed, but no reputable historian states that it is incontrovertible fact. There are absolutely no written records--Christian included--which are contemporary to the years in which the putative Jesus is alleged to have lived. What records do assert that he was real are all either from Christian sources, or suspect as interpolations (c.f. the Tacitus interpolation and the Flavius Josephus interpolation). The principle reason that historians consider that the Jesus character may have been based on a rabbi named Joshuah who lived at approximately that time is that there are a few, allow me to stress, a few Christian sources which are close to being contemporary. The reason historians will speak of a Christian era is because of the explosion of the cult after about 100 CE. That is evidence that a great many people believed the story, and not that the individual existed.

Frankly, i suspect it is about a 50-50 shot. Even had the putative "Jesus" existed, that is no good reason to put any credence in the host of fairy tales which have grown up long after this individual is alleged to have lived and died, and which serve to underpin organized religion, rather than to provide a reliable historical record.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 07:05 am
Two points:
I have seriously read the Bible, yet came away an avowed atheist.
I am one who does not seriously think a real Jesus existed.
Since I opted out on the video, I have no further comment at this time.
0 Replies
 
Coolwhip
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 07:16 am
Setanta wrote:

Although there is certainly a large community of alleged historians with a stake in the question of the existence of the putative Jesus, it is complete BS to say that it is considered historical fact. Historians without a Christian agenda, many of them, think that it is probable that such an individual existed, but no reputable historian states that it is incontrovertible fact. There are absolutely no written records--Christian included--which are contemporary to the years in which the putative Jesus is alleged to have lived. What records do assert that he was real are all either from Christian sources, or suspect as interpolations (c.f. the Tacitus interpolation and the Flavius Josephus interpolation). The principle reason that historians consider that the Jesus character may have been based on a rabbi named Joshuah who lived at approximately that time is that there are a few, allow me to stress, a few Christian sources which are close to being contemporary. The reason historians will speak of a Christian era is because of the explosion of the cult after about 100 CE. That is evidence that a great many people believed the story, and not that the individual existed.

Frankly, i suspect it is about a 50-50 shot. Even had the putative "Jesus" existed, that is no good reason to put any credence in the host of fairy tales which have grown up long after this individual is alleged to have lived and died, and which serve to underpin organized religion, rather than to provide a reliable historical record.


I might be over my head in calling it a historic fact. But it does seem more likely that a man named Jesus lived, than the whole bible depicting the suns movement across the sky. This video also claims "the egyptian religion is likely 95% of the foundation of the judo-christian theology".

Making a video without having to back up any of your statements is relatively easy, they seem very convincing at first but most of the claims are either plain false or a far stretch of the truth.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:11 am
BubbaGumbo wrote:
. . . Umm...I used to "seriously read the bible" and am now a full-fledge atheist so your point is moot.
Then how did you mis the fact that the bible does not support the doctrine of the immortality of the soul?

First. Adam Did not posess a soul, he came to be a soul, as animals were created to be souls. (Genesis 2:7)

Second. The bible makes it clear that the soul not only dies (Ezekiel 18:4), but at death consciousness ceases (Psalm 146:4)
BubbaGumbo wrote:
What strawman is the video dispelling? . . .
You mean what others?
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:17 am
Archaelologists found a tomb of guy names Jesus with a father named Joseph married to a lady named Mary. That's enough for me
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:25 am
What I don't understand is the constant debate.

If you're an atheist you don't believe in God and who gives a **** about God talk?

If you're a believer then what has the non approachable non believer to do with you?

You guys aren't very secure in either your belief or non belief with all this sniping, arguing, threatening, total smugness in your positions....

I happen to believe in God as an actual being who has chosen, for reasons best known to Him, to be sort of an absentee landlord that drops by once in awhile when called. Capable of intervention but not necessarily moved to intervene all the time. I'm not pissed off about it and I'm on about my business. What choice do any of us have?

Now by calling God Him, I'm sure I've offended both the believers AND the people who will want to know why I didn't refer to the deity as Her, AND the non believers just because I believe in God.

That's a muthaphuckin hat trick bitches.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:29 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
. . . I happen to believe in God as an actual being who has chosen, for reasons best known to Him, to be sort of an absentee landlord that drops by once in awhile when called. Capable of intervention but not necessarily moved to intervene all the time. . .
Kind of true. To extend your analogy, he has sublet to a tenant whose lease is about to expire.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:31 am
and sandwiched between the lessor and the lessee a corrupt HOA who has failed to hold up their end of the bargain to either party....
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:35 am
Ya could fall down on your bony knees and pray about it.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:41 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
and sandwiched between the lessor and the lessee a corrupt HOA who has failed to hold up their end of the bargain to either party....
Well, in the sense that we are the sub tenants in my earlier analogy, it is the HOA whose unwelcome intervention is due to expire.
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:43 am
One day, Manny showed up late to Fenway park to a restless crowd. People were thirsty and hungry. He said to Terry, "what up mang? Why deez people all yelling and ****?" Terry told him how Fenway was out of beer and only had a few hot dogs left. So Manny reached into his crotch, and put some of his ball sweat into a plastic beer cup. He then grabbed his wang, stuffed it into a hot dog bun and put some mustard on there. He then said, "yo mang! My boyz at Fenway no longer be thirsty and hungry."

With that, the overpriced Bud Light kept flowing and there were plenty of hot dogs for the rest of the game.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:44 am
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
One day, Manny showed up late to Fenway park to a restless crowd. People were thirsty and hungry. He said to Terry, "what up mang? Why deez people all yelling and ****?" Terry told him how Fenway was out of beer and only had a few hot dogs left. So Manny reached into his crotch, and put some of his ball sweat into a plastic beer cup. He then grabbed his wang, stuffed it into a hot dog bun and put some mustard on there. He then said, "yo mang! My boyz at Fenway no longer be thirsty and hungry."

With that, the overpriced Bud Light kept flowing and there were plenty of hot dogs for the rest of the game.


ramen
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 09:52 am
neologist wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
and sandwiched between the lessor and the lessee a corrupt HOA who has failed to hold up their end of the bargain to either party....
Well, in the sense that we are the sub tenants in my earlier analogy, it is the HOA whose unwelcome intervention is due to expire.


so no more church and organized religion then?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jun, 2007 10:10 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
neologist wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
and sandwiched between the lessor and the lessee a corrupt HOA who has failed to hold up their end of the bargain to either party....
Well, in the sense that we are the sub tenants in my earlier analogy, it is the HOA whose unwelcome intervention is due to expire.


so no more church and organized religion then?
Interestingly, a demise described in chapters 17 and 18 of the book of Revelation.
0 Replies
 
 

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