Before King Arthur and Aragorn....

For anyone not in the know, this still holds the record for longest poem ever written in the English language. Also, a new stanza was invented, the Spenserian stanza:

"Devised for his epic work THE FAERIE QUEEN (1590) this stanza consists of eight lines of iambic pentameter followed by an alexandrine (a single iambic line of 12 syllables). The rhyme scheme is written as ababbcbcc."

Thanks, Cav, that's a great link. I can't imagine reading the whole thing (twice!) though the subject is fascinating. It must be easier to understand the strange spellings & words as you get into it. What does it mean, for example, when the "knight is pricking on the plaine"? I think I would like it if I had enough time to sit at the computer & read. At least we know where to look now!


Here's one of Spenser's most famous love poems:

One day I wrote her name upon the strand,
But came the waves and washed it away:
Again I wrote it with a second hand,
But came the tide and made my pains his prey.
"Vain man," said she, "that dost in vain essay
A mortal thing so to immortalize;
For I myself shall like to this decay,
And eke my name be wiped out likewise."
"Not so," quoth I; "let baser things devise
To lie in dust, but you shall live by fame;
My verse your virtues rare shall eternize,
And in the heavens write you glorious name:
Where, whenas Death shall all the world subdue,
Our love shall live, and later life renew."

That is great Piffka. I think 'pricking on the plaine' means trotting about on a horse looking for chicks

Ahhh, drop the 'r' and it's a pick-up?

It reminded me of Chaucer's "so pricketh* him natur in her courages" -- there seem to have been a lot of "pricking" going on.


*another one I never understood!

Boss, the term means either to prod, or to use a lance--the use of the lance could be on horse-back, or on foot--Llewellyn ap Griffith, the last Welsh Prince of Wales, was killed when he rode out of the fog onto a lance which a foot soldier had "couched" against the ground.

In the first example, as it says Knight, it likely refers to someone engaging in jousting as a sport, although in context, it could mean defeating all comers in a standing challenge. The second example likely means challenging nature.

So, for example (not a quote, but a construct based on Mallory's Morte d'Artur):

"He hight him la Cote Mal Taille, and he went apricking on the plaine, he feutered his lance, and bespake all knights recreant."

Which would translate in to modern English as:

"He called himself the Ill-fitting Coat, and he rode to joust in the field, couching his lance, and challenging all unfaithful knights."

Thanks Setanta, that clears it up. I blame Freud for confusing us modern folk....

The greatest expression of the Arthurian cycle in the English language is La Morte d'Artur-The Death of Arthur-of Sir Thomas Mallory, printed and published by William Caxton in 1485. An American scholar from the turn of the 19th to the 20th centuries, whom i believe was named Holmes (don't recall, can't be arsed to look it up), identified the author as Sir Thomas Mallory of Westmoreland, a thoroughly bad man, who violated every precept of knightly behavior held up for emulation in The Death of Arthur. That man was indicted for or convicted of, at various times, murder, manslaughter, rape, kidnapping, fraud, sequestration of monies or estates-and even though the Wars of the Roses were raging, and some of the charges may have been politically motivated, that cannot explain away all of it. More recent scholarship has suggested Sir Thomas Mallory of Yorkshire-and as the text is definitely written in the English current in northern England in the 15th century, this seems more likely. Additionally, the text constantly refers to "the Frensh book," "as the Frensh book sayth"-and otherwise indicating that the author had access to Arthurian texts in French, which were numerous and popular. Thomas Mallory of Yorkshire was captured during the Hundred Years War, and spent 17 years in captivity at the castle of the Duke of Armagnac, who had a famous personal library, especially noted for its collection of the "laies" of French authors on the Arthurian cycle. In Caxton's Mallory, the book ends with the author's plea to the reader that they will pray for "an humble Knight Presoner" and that it was written "in the nineth year of our Lord King Edward." This would refer to Edward IV, who was king from 1461 to 1470, deposed, and regained his throne in 1471, reigning until his death in 1483. Thomas Mallory of Yorkshire died in prison in 1471 or 1472, and would not have known that Edward had been deposed, so the ninth year of Edward's reign would be 1470-and would coincide with the facts about that Thomas Mallory of Yorkshire.

In the 1930's, more than one thousand pages of manuscript, all in the same hand (likely a copyist), were found in a library in the West Riding in England. This text is written in the English of the north, and is very likely a copy of Mallory's original text, for whatever errors or changes may be included. It is much more comprehensive than Caxton's Mallory, and Caxton may well have edited the manuscript which he used to set up the presses. The existence of this manuscript was kept a secret until the late 1950's, to be assured that it could be studied in private and preserved, and holographs were made of the sheets. In the 1970's, John Steinbeck made "a pilgrimage" to England to study the text, and was writing his version of the story of Arthur at the time of his death. In the introduction which he wrote for his planned book (which was published posthumously, and incomplete), he says that as a boy, his head was filled with visions of the glorious days of Knights in shining armor, by reading Mallory.

Just some interesting stuff about the Arthurian cycle-interesting to me, at least.

Well, okay, but you just spoiled all our fun.


I like that idea of nature challenging 'em.


Oh, the above was in reply to the pricking not being a picking-up. (I am slow.)

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Very interesting about the Morte' de Artur. Sad that Steinbeck didn't get to finish his version. I do like T.H. White's version. If the original story was in French, then does that mean that Arthur was French? I thought he was an Anglo-Saxon.

So Mort d'Arthur does indeed predate Spenser...my bad.

Were you bad? I missed it. Maybe you were just thinking you were bad. I've carefully checked your earlier posts and I don't think you were.

"my bad" = my mistake, dat's all, regarding the title of the thread.

Oh dear, I know that means my mistake... sheesh, I'm not THAT old and anyway, I've got teenagers. I re-read all your posts -- but I didn't think to read the title. You were right, you WERE wrong. Bad, bad, bad!

Still, it is impressive that you read the entire Faery Queen twice. Pretty amazing too, for a culinary degree. I assume it was for a well-rounding literature class.

Hey, Boss, i didn't post that to make a monkey outta ya, i wasn't thinkin' about the title at all . . .

I've read The Death of Arthur several times, and probably will again. Edmund Spenser said some pretty nasty things about the Irish, so i refused to read him when i was at university, and i got away with it, too. I was a very bad boy.

Heh heh, well, I never had the patience for intensive research, so I did na take yer post to heart dere. I reread the poem in bits and pieces over the last few months in the wake of the LOTR phenomenon, to get a bit of mythological perspective. While the movies inspired my wife to start stalking Viggo Mortenson, it inspired me to get back into a long-neglected interest in myth and mythology, and such diversions as the knightly code, and legends thereof. Thank you SARS-ridden Toronto, for stealing my living for a while and renewing my interest in books. I had a nice cloth-bound 'Everyman' version of La Mort d'Arthur which I gave to a very intelligent child, son of friends, for his 13th birthday. He was very much intrigued by the Arthurian legends. The edition I had preserved the text, but modernized the spelling.

Hic iacet Arturus, Rex quondam, Rexque futurus.

Stop speaking Spanish, Set....

"Here lies Arthur, Once and Future King."

In Mallory, this is given as Arthur's epitaph. It is the source for the title of T. H. White's rather bizarre, but very entertaining novel about Arthur, The Once and Future King. Disney studios claimed that The Sword in Stone was based upon that book, but i find that a bit of a stretcher . . .

Hmm...isn't everything with Disney a bit of a stretcher? I comfort myself with the knowledge that a mutinational started by a Nazi is now run by Jews.

Now - I thought "pricking" meant trotting (on a horse)...goes and looks up her Norton Critical Edition Complete Spenser - yeppies - "riding briskly"