Speaking Ill of the Dead

sozobe wrote:

I have far fewer problems with "relief" than "delight."

Then we're on the same wavelength about the death of almost all bastards other than Falwell.

I guess one reason why I'm less inhibited in Falwell's case is that theologically conservative Christians have this talent for making their conversation partners feel rude about not thinking as they do, and saying it openly.

For example, my friends in St. Louis belong to a conservative branch of Lutheranism, the Missouri Synod, and one of their community pastors stands out as theologically conservative even within this branch. One thing that struck me about this pastor was how frequently in the conversation he set you up so you either had to make a complete arsehole of yourself or agree with him: that abortion is murder, or that in the beginning, 6000 years ago, god created the heaven and the earth, or that women must submit to their husbands, or some other item on the conservative Christian checklist.

The first couple of times this happened, I did fall into the trap of nodding and agreeing with the pastor. Then I decided to stick to my guns after all and spoke my mind, whether or not it sounded rude. This created one more "sounding like an arsehole moment": "Yesterday you said X, now you're saying the opposite. You need to work on your honesty, Thomas." But after this moment, I could once again talk religion without losing my sanity and my self-respect. After this experience and similar ones, I just stopped caring about sounding rude when religious doctrine and its peddlers are involved.

I guess that carried over to Falwell's death.

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I generally just wonder, "What bastards are going to sprout up in his place?" It may be a cynical view, but to me it seems that dicks in power tend to beget more dicks in power. The characters change, but the story remains the same.

But maybe the old Evangelical spirit is on the way out with its spokesmen. Maybe.

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Yeah, I have to agree with Patiodog. I don't think the absence of Falwell will make that big of a difference in the world. If I did, I could see being happy about that difference, if not his death per se. But I don't.

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Soz- I dunno. There are many people out there with "charisma", like Falwell, who amass a following, for good or for ill. I think that it will take awhile though for another person with Falwell's message, to develop the power base that he had. And that is a good thing!

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Even if Falwell's influence falls into the hand of a few individuals with a common ideology and corruptibility instead of being concentrated in one great figurehead, the influence is still there and isn't likely to be used for the good of anyone but those who wield it in the public eye.

Happy Hump Day.

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Deplore his life? Certainly.

Deplore his influence? Certainly.

Cheer his death? Nope.

Celebrate his absence? I think so.

Locally a scummy child molester died before his case came to trial. The County D.A. proclaimed, "He will now be judged by a higher power." I can't accept this notion, but I admit to some satisfaction that Falwell is now irrelevant and off the playing field.

Unfortunately the melody lingers on.

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All the same, I don't feel the same way about public figures that I do about people I know. If I take some degree of satisfaction or relief in some public figure's death, it's just that: the death of a public figure. The death of the private person is a different matter, and someone like Falwell just does not enter my private sphere. If I knew him -- well, I suppose that depends on how vile the private Falwell was, and I suspect he was an ass as much as anything -- not really even worthy, privately, of hatred, but just bemused wonder...

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All these Bible-thumpers need a dose of reality and I always let loose that their Jesus is Lucifer and that usually ends it and I further point out that Jesus is Helel. They either turn apopletic or shut up.

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Do today is the third day and I am taking bets on whether Falwell rises from the dead.

Let me tell ya, I was really disappointed with Reagan--I was just sure he would levitate at the very least.

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Diane wrote:

Do today is the third day and I am taking bets on whether Falwell rises from the dead.

Let me tell ya, I was really disappointed with Reagan--I was just sure he would levitate at the very least.

Talk about a nun gone bad ... Smile

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The idea of respecting the dead speaks more to we that are alive. After all, the dead cannot be harmed by anything we say. I think the point is to respect life and those that had a good feeling about the deceased.

Timberlandko comes to mind. Nobody here had a bad word to say about him when he died.

Shouldn't we afford everyone (particularly their loved ones) that same respect?

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CerealKiller wrote:

Timberlandko comes to mind. Nobody here had a bad word to say about him when he died.

Shouldn't we afford everyone (particularly their loved ones) that same respect?

No. Timber was a great guy, and that's what everybody expressed in his memorial thread. Why should the respect properly accorded to Timber be reduced to the same level as the thread properly accorded to Falwell? Demands for "that same respect" cut both ways, so I do not intend to honor them.

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Thomas wrote:

CerealKiller wrote:
Timberlandko comes to mind. Nobody here had a bad word to say about him when he died.

Shouldn't we afford everyone (particularly their loved ones) that same respect?

No. Timber was a great guy, and that's what everybody expressed in his memorial thread. Why should the respect properly accorded to Timber be reduced to the same level as the thread properly accorded to Falwell? Demands for "that same respect" cut both ways, so I do not intend to honor them.

By the same token there are people who thought Falwell was a really great guy. And nobody is asking anyone to honor him.

Whether you agreed with him or not, I think it is classless and tasteless to dance on his grave. No different than the Phelps family picketing funerals of gays and soldiers.

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I haven't the time to read this entire thread, which I just found, but I want to say, that in the case of a man like Falwel, I have long believed his actions have been reponsible for policies and actions that led to countless unnecessary deaths of others. Not claiming he laid a hand, but that his politics did it. Why wouldn't I be happy to see him gone? Not that his death will change any hearts and minds, but at least one influential force for destructiveness is stilled.

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edgarblythe wrote:

Why wouldn't I be happy to see him gone? Not that his death will change any hearts and minds, but at least one influential force for destructiveness is stilled.

Exactly. As far as I am concerned, Falwell was a narrow minded bigot who amassed a lot of followers, who used his notoriety to shore up their own small mindedness. It is the end of his era, and that, IMO, is a good thing.

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edgarblythe wrote:

[...] at least one influential force for destructiveness is stilled.

Yeah, but someone else will take his place. The void will be filled with another Christian fundalmentalist terrorist.

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well one thing's for sure... nothing we say positive or negative will effect this guy..... he's dead ya know.

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CerealKiller wrote:

No different than the Phelps family picketing funerals of gays and soldiers.

I agree it would be tasteless to picket Falwell's funeral. I would never do that.

But bitching about him in an online community, or even in the newspaper, is a different matter. Nobody who mourns Falwell has to read what I write about him. There are plenty of other threads to go to. By contrast, everyone who mourns at someone's funeral would has only one place to show up. They have nowhere else to go for this person's funeral, and have no choice except to endure the picketing or stay away from the funeral.

So there is indeed a difference, and in my opinion it's a huge one.

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Thomas wrote:

CerealKiller wrote:
No different than the Phelps family picketing funerals of gays and soldiers.

I agree it would be tasteless to picket Falwell's funeral. I would never do that.

But bitching about him in an online community, or even in the newspaper, is a different matter. Nobody who mourns Falwell has to read what I write about him. There are plenty of other threads to go to. By contrast, everyone who mourns at someone's funeral would has only one place to show up. They have nowhere else to go for this person's funeral, and have no choice except to endure the picketing or stay away from the funeral.

So there is indeed a difference, and in my opinion it's a huge one.

Good taste is timeless.

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"Don't speak ill of the dead" is an ancient protection against evil spirits, so I guess all of us who have mentioned our relief that Falwell no longer has the ability to make his crazy pronouncements, are going to get the evil eye from his hell-fire and brimstone ghost. Yikes!!

There hasn't been anyone here who would consider speaking ill of Falwell in the presence of his family and certainly not at his funeral. But here on a2k we can speak our mind, polite or not, as long as it isn't blasphemous.

Thomas, my ex husband's family were Missouri Synod Lutherans. Gah.

Nun gone bad indeed...

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Speaking Ill of the Dead

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