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They slaughter horses, don't they?

 
 
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 08:24 am
Court: Horse slaughter can resume in DeKalb
(Chicago Tribune, reg. req'd)

By John Biemer
Tribune staff reporter
Published May 2, 2007, 7:42 PM CDT

A federal court is allowing the last operating horse slaughterhouse in the United States, located in DeKalb, to temporarily resume butchering horses for sale to overseas markets.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit decided 2-1 Tuesday to grant Cavel International slaughterhouse's emergency request for a stay as it considers an appeal of a lower court's order a month ago that halted federal inspection of the horses, effectively shutting down the business. In that decision, a U.S. District Court judge determined that an arrangement in which slaughterhouses were paying the U.S. Department of Agriculture to cover costs of their health inspections was illegal.

That arrangement developed in early 2006 after Congress cut off funding for horse slaughterhouse inspections the previous year. The Humane Society of the United States sued, arguing that the funding arrangement was a conflict of interest and that the USDA had implemented it without conducting required environmental assessments.

In its decision Tuesday to grant the stay, the appeals court indicated that Cavel International had argued "that it will go out of business absent a stay" because it would not be able to operate while the appeal is pending.

In the dissenting opinion, one judge noted the company did not fold during a two-year shutdown due to a fire and pointed out that it no longer has two horse slaughterhouse competitors in Texas after they were shut down in unrelated court rulings earlier this year. "If Cavel was able to recover its clientele after a temporary shutdown when it faced competition, its current predicament without competition might be less dire than Cavel proposes," the judge wrote.

James Tucker, Cavel's plant manager in DeKalb, declined to comment Wednesday.

The slaughterhouse cannot operate without federal inspectors on site, and none was there Wednesday, said Steven Cohen, spokesman for the USDA's food, safety and inspection service. Cohen said the agency was "in discussions in terms of when it would be appropriate for inspection program personnel to return."

The Belgian-owned Cavel plant slaughters about 1,000 horses a week to export its meat, mainly to Europe. When the March 28 U.S. District Court order shut down the business, it had been the only U.S. facility still processing horse meat for human consumption.

Nancy Perry, vice president of government affairs for the Humane Society of the United States, said the organization was "deeply disappointed" in the stay order, but she said it "adds urgency" to legislative efforts to ban the slaughtering of horses for human consumption.

"We need to end this barbaric business of slaughtering horses for profit permanently," Perry said.

The Illinois House of Representatives passed such a measure two weeks ago on a 74-41 vote. The legislation is now under consideration in the state Senate's Public Health Committee.
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I'm baffled by the controversy here. Why should there be a ban on slaughtering horses? Is it because we regard them more like pets than like other animals that we routinely slaughter such as cows and pigs? What's the big deal?

(Note: I couldn't decide in which forum -- Legal, Philosophy & Debate, Politics, General -- this thread should go. If the mods have a better idea than I do, then by all means move it.)
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,600 • Replies: 24
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 09:54 am
That's what I say too...why not slaughter them? Never had horse meat but I suppose there's someone who has a taste for everything, right?

The bigger question should be how can we make our slaughter system more humane and how can we enforce the laws to keep it that way. Currently, we practically torture animals before killing them (some people do actually torture them).

If people knew where their meat really came from.......
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:05 am
I do know where my meat comes from. That's why I don't shop at Starmarket or Stop and Shop, but only at Whole Foods and only selected items, too.


But anyway, I heard a broadcast on NPR about horse slaughtering. Apparently its banning will cause more problems than help anything. Horses are less and less profitable, and many will be reduced to life in inappropriate conditions. Besides, people always find ways that are not exactly legal if they must.

I have long forgotten the source of this argument, but it was very convincing. And I'm a horse fanatic. Rode for four years as a child.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:13 am
dagmaraka wrote:
I do know where my meat comes from. That's why I don't shop at Starmarket or Stop and Shop, but only at Whole Foods and only selected items, too.


Most people don't stop and think when buying their meat at Meijer or the local supermarket. And they don't want to because once you know...there is no turning back.
Whole Foods does have FABULOUS meat.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:34 am
My head agrees with your statement, but my heart doesn't.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:39 am
Linkat wrote:
My head agrees with your statement, but my heart doesn't.


Yeah, I'd have trouble actually eating a horse or a dog.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:45 am
Horse slaughteries (all privately owned, attached to local horse butcher shops) are getting less here as well. (Only about 60 or 70 left in all Germany.)

I don't like the taste of horse meat (Mrs. Walter is from a town which had 30 years ago still eight independent horse butcheries, now only two are left).

Not far away from my place is an auction hall .... where horses for slaghtering are dealt any two weeks.

In some European countries, horses are exclusively breeded for slaughtering.

I do think, it really has a lot - if not all - to do with what joe said: they are considered to be more pets than "animals for food".
(On the other hand: the best recipes for pet rabbits come from those persons who breed them ...)
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:50 am
perhaps i should be a vegetarian ... but i'm not .
to me , it's all a bit of a red herring , either we do eat meat or we don't .
to say that it is allright to eat beef , pork , chicken and other commercially produced meats but not horse-meat , rabbits ... i don't understand what the reasoning behind it is .
when i grew up we kept chickens and rabbits and they were "pets" to us but we still enjoyed a roast chicken and a rabbit stew .
i certainly respect vegetarians - but i'm not one of them .
hbg
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:56 am
hamburger wrote:
perhaps i should be a vegetarian ... but i'm not .
to me , it's all a bit of a red herring , either we do eat meat or we don't .
to say that it is allright to eat beef , pork , chicken and other commercially produced meats but not horse-meat , rabbits ... i don't understand what the reasoning behind it is .
when i grew up we kept chickens and rabbits and they were "pets" to us but we still enjoyed a roast chicken and a rabbit stew .
i certainly respect vegetarians - but i'm not one of them .
hbg


If you were a vegetarian - you would have to change your name to veggieburger. My daughter once called herself a meatetarian.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 10:56 am
to add to walter's comments :

growing up in hamburg , i had to pass a horse-butcher's store when going to school .
buying a "horse-wiener" on the way home for ten pfennigs was quite a treat - by the time i arrived home for lunch i wasn't that hungry any more - my mother knew what had stilled my "hunger pangs" Laughing
hbg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 11:02 am
Re: They slaughter horses, don't they?
joefromchicago wrote:
I'm baffled by the controversy here. Why should there be a ban on slaughtering horses? Is it because we regard them more like pets than like other animals that we routinely slaughter such as cows and pigs? What's the big deal?


I agree completely that this is absurd, but i don't think it is baffling. I suspect that those who opposed the slaughter of horses would also oppose the slaughter of swine and cattle, if they thought they could get away with it. Put it down to a basic cynicism about people and their true motives. Some people in the world eat dogs, and while i would not want to do so myself, i don't think it is anyone's business but their own, and the business of local government to regulate slaughter in the interest of public health. If animals are slaughtered for food, then the only compelling interest which i think anyone else could allege is that it be done in as hygienic and humane a manner as possible. On the subject of humanity, the only interest i could see someone reasonably allege is that cruelty debases those who are cruel, as well as it would debase the human victims of cruelty. When the victims are animals, and when public health and humane issues are addressed, i think it is no longer anyone's business what animals are bred and slaughtered for their meat.

When Miss Perry says: "We need to end this barbaric business of slaughtering horses for profit permanently," she calls the slaughter barbaric without explaining what about it is barbaric. If it is barbaric to slaughter horses for profit, it surely is barbaric to slaughter swine and cattle. Is that what Miss Perry believes? It would be interesting to know.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 11:03 am
The famous "rheinische sauerbraten" (marinated roasted beef) - and any other - is originally made from horse meat.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 11:32 am
Re: They slaughter horses, don't they?
Setanta wrote:
When Miss Perry says: "We need to end this barbaric business of slaughtering horses for profit permanently," she calls the slaughter barbaric without explaining what about it is barbaric. If it is barbaric to slaughter horses for profit, it surely is barbaric to slaughter swine and cattle. Is that what Miss Perry believes? It would be interesting to know.

The Humane Society has long advocated more "humane" methods of slaughtering animals, but I don't think they've ever come out and opposed all slaughtering of any particular species. The society, however, doesn't really make it clear why a total ban on the slaughter of horses is appropriate, whereas a total ban on the slaughter of pigs or cows isn't. From its website, the only argument I can discern is that a ban on horse-slaughtering would protect wild horses. But surely wild horses can be protected simply by banning the capturing and slaughtering of wild horses. There's no need to ban the slaughter of domesticated horses in order to protect wild ones.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 11:57 am
linkat wrote :

Quote:
If you were a vegetarian - you would have to change your name to veggieburger



my name has nothing to do with a "walking cow" ...
http://www.teachersparadise.com/ency/en/media/3/3b/hamburger.jpg

but refers to the place of my birth Laughing (the city of hamburg)
http://www.studium.uni-freiburg.de/de/international/incoming/allgemein/betreuung/bilder/Hamburger_Hafen.jpg

when i grew up , "walking cows" were called "frikandelle" in hamburg - no doubt a leftover from the french occupation of hamburg around 1810 when many french words were incorporated into the german language ,
"frikandeau" being a kind of roast meat .
HAMBURGER - not the "cow" kind Laughing
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 12:00 pm
I am again making my usual lame attempt at a joke.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 12:11 pm
linkat : i am ALWAYS ready for a laugh Laughing
hbg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 09:35 am
I found that HSUS article very interesting, Joe. I note that there are two Acts of Congress in question, one which protects wild horses and burros, and another which prohibits the slaughter of horses, or the exportation of horses for slaughter. It seems that the HSUS makes no distinction between protecting wild horses and preventing any slaughter of horses. They also make Senator Conrad Burns the villain of the piece, as does this "Care2" article, which is much more of an appeal to emotion.

This makes me suspect the motives of those involved even more. As i noted already, Miss Perry calls the slaughter of horses "barbaric," without explaining what distinction there is in the slaughter of horses which would make it barbaric, without also implying that the slaughter of swine and cattle were barbaric. That's why i would be interested to know how Miss Perry feels on that topic. Miss Perry is commenting on a bill to outlaw slaughtering horses, or exporting them alive to be slaughtered, and not a bill which restricts itself to the circumstances of wild horses.

As this archived article shows, as recently as a decade ago, the USDA advocated eating horse and goat meat. At that time, apparently, the inspection of horse and goat slaughter was mandatory activities of the USDA. I find the motives of Miss Perry, and HSUS even more suspect, as it appears that they conflate the protection of wild horses with a ban on the slaughter of all horses, and i think this is not due to fuzzy thinking on the part of Miss Perry or HSUS, but rather an intentional manipulation of people's emotional response to animals. The allegations of cruelty in ALL slaughterhouse operations are legion, and it does make me wonder how long it will be before the fight to end the commercial slaughter of swine and cattle is joined. I know that sounds alarmist, but when it comes to extreme positions, i feel it is wise never to underestimate the power of emotive appeals to marshal public opinion to back extreme arguments.

I was fairly certain that the United States had, within the last few decades, engaged in the culling of herds of wild horses, but i've not found reliable evidence of this online, and haven't much time to devote to the effort at the moment. If i find anything, i'll post it. It would be ironic is the wild horses being rounded up and sold for slaughter were part of a concerted program to cull wild horses because of overpopulation, while the HSUS uses the plight of wild horses as the thin end of the wedge to outlaw horse slaughter.
0 Replies
 
CowDoc
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 08:27 am
We've gone down this road in previous threads, folks. The bottom line is that the argument for banning horse slaughter is strictly knee-jerk in nature, creating many problems and solving none. The same is true for wild horse herds, which do far more damage to public lands than cattle grazing could even consider. As usual, this is a political, emotional issue, having almost nothing to do with facts.
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 11:33 am
Horses are pretty. They have a nobility and intelligence that frankly - cows and chicken do not.

Never seen a chicken that has assisted in turning around the life of someone in turmoil.

Chickens and cows are stupid. Yes, they are. Smile

Is it an emotional issue? Of course. But there is more to it than that.

I grew up near several horse farms. Some were for the production of PMU (now out of business as technology has advanced and it is no longer profitable), some were for small business (entertainment) or personal pleasure, and a few large ones for meat (sent abroad, and kept as quiet as possible, as to not arouse the anger of animal rights groups - though we still got to see some of their handiwork! Smile
The dealing of horses was at one time big business, though as it becomes less profitable, it naturally is becoming less and less of a problem.

Even though I have eaten near any animal that was put in front of me, I still find horsemeat gross and counter to my sensibilities. And veal.

I for one will be happy when all these farms are out of business. I believe good old economic reasons will take care of that. Yay!
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 01:02 pm
flushd wrote :

Quote:
Horses are pretty. They have a nobility and intelligence that frankly - cows and chicken do not.


how about pigs ? :wink:


Quote:
Pigs are misunderstood in many ways. Many people think of them as portly and stupid, but the NATURE program THE JOY OF PIGS shows us how intelligent pigs really are. (They are naturally lean, too, unless they are overfed by humans.)

Pigs are smarter than any other domestic animal. Shocked
---------------------------------------------------------
Their ability to solve problems, like the pig I.Q. test on THE JOY OF PIGS, is well-documented, and they are considered by animal experts to be more trainable than dogs or cats.


complete article :
THE JOY OF PIGS !
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