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Real Islam - The Words (Read and Change your life)

 
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2007 09:03 pm
Most of the funding for Islamic fundamentalism is coming from Saudi Arabia. All the mosques get money from the Saudis so they follow their line. The Taliban seems to be the creatures of the Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 01:04 am
BDV wrote:
What aload of balls


Man, you got that right... Were all the virgins mentioned in that mess somewhere?
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 05:42 am
vikorr wrote:
Oh yes, talking about that...doesn't Islam divide the world into two abodes - the Abode of Islam, and the Abode of War?
harram/halal.
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muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 11:22 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
vikorr wrote:
Oh yes, talking about that...doesn't Islam divide the world into two abodes - the Abode of Islam, and the Abode of War?
harram/halal.

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your kind PM. Unfortunately, the moderators do not give me the possibility of sending or replying to PMs:
Forum Admin wrote:
You have not met the PM privilege requirements for sending out PMs. Access to PMs is given to users after a period of good standing during which they have been active members of the community.

Once I have this ability, I'll elaborate on the important question you raised.


I ask Allah the Almighty that this Ramadan will be full of sincere worship by Muslims and a source of guidance to Non-Muslims, Amen.

Thank you again Steve.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 12:37 pm
The true religion will follow this command of Jesus (PBUH) : "By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves." (John 13:35)

Such a group does exist.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 12:47 pm
Religion, The root of all evil.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2007 01:02 pm
muslim1 wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
vikorr wrote:
Oh yes, talking about that...doesn't Islam divide the world into two abodes - the Abode of Islam, and the Abode of War?
harram/halal.

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your kind PM. Unfortunately, the moderators do not give me the possibility of sending or replying to PMs:
Forum Admin wrote:
You have not met the PM privilege requirements for sending out PMs. Access to PMs is given to users after a period of good standing during which they have been active members of the community.

Once I have this ability, I'll elaborate on the important question you raised.


I ask Allah the Almighty that this Ramadan will be full of sincere worship by Muslims and a source of guidance to Non-Muslims, Amen.

Thank you again Steve.
you're welcome. Keep pumping out the posts then you'll get pm ability at 500 I believe. But if you want to reply to my question about division here please do so.
0 Replies
 
muslim1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 11:23 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
muslim1 wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
vikorr wrote:
Oh yes, talking about that...doesn't Islam divide the world into two abodes - the Abode of Islam, and the Abode of War?
harram/halal.

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your kind PM. Unfortunately, the moderators do not give me the possibility of sending or replying to PMs:
Forum Admin wrote:
You have not met the PM privilege requirements for sending out PMs. Access to PMs is given to users after a period of good standing during which they have been active members of the community.

Once I have this ability, I'll elaborate on the important question you raised.


I ask Allah the Almighty that this Ramadan will be full of sincere worship by Muslims and a source of guidance to Non-Muslims, Amen.

Thank you again Steve.
you're welcome. Keep pumping out the posts then you'll get pm ability at 500 I believe. But if you want to reply to my question about division here please do so.


Steve,

Your question was:

Steve 41oo wrote:
Why is it that Islam divides rather than heals?


With all due respect, I disagree. Islam can be considered as the greatest unifying force, because in Islam, there is no discrimination on race, color, location, nationality, social or economical position...
The Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) said: "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action".

However, unity should not prevent us from forbidding evil, from punishing the wrong-doers under the pretext that we all come from one source. Indeed, enjoining good and forbidding evil is what makes the strength of Islam.

And who said that Islam doesn't heal? On the contrary, the main and fundamental source of Islam (that is The Qur'an) is a spiritual healing. Indeed, Allah Almighty says: "O mankind! there hath come to you a direction from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts" [Al-Qur'an 10:57]


In your message, you also underlined the importance of Friday to Muslims, and that is correct. But, Friday is not the only day in which Muslims perform prayer. In fact, we have to offer at least five prayers daily. Similarly, Ramadan should not be the only month in which we perform good deeds. You emphasized it a year ago: http://www.able2know.com/forums/a2k-post2282211.html#2282211

In short, Islam unifies under the shade of one Creator, and heals the hearts of mankind.


And Allah knows best.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 11:41 am
well thanks for that.

I've said before that if I have disagreements with Islam, I certainly accept it does not discriminate on grounds of race colour background etc, which is laudable.

But it does seem to me that Islam does not embrace other faiths. There is no place for the Muslim who is interested in Buddhism, or is there?

If I was Christian (I'm not) would I be allowed into a mosque?
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2007 05:16 pm
Quote:
With all due respect, I disagree. Islam can be considered as the greatest unifying force, because in Islam, there is no discrimination on race, color, location, nationality, social or economical position...


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but are not people of other religions who live in muslim countries, treated as second class citizens?

Further, is it not true that many Sunni do not consider Shiites to be Islamic, and visa versa?

And, this I do not have any idea of - do either Sunni or Shiite consider Waahabists (I think that's how you spell it) Muslim? And do the Waahabists consider either Shiite of Sunni to be Muslim?

And considering the prophets founding teachings and actions regarding conversion, can not the 'The abode of War' be interpretted rather literally (unless the enemy is militarily stronger)?

Quote:
However, unity should not prevent us from forbidding evil, from punishing the wrong-doers under the pretext that we all come from one source. Indeed, enjoining good and forbidding evil is what makes the strength of Islam.


I presume that the 'evil' that is forbidden in this case, will always be whatever Islam considers to be evil, regardless of what the rest of the world considers evil?

Would this not mean that anyone living in a Muslim country would be subject to a religious view of good and evil, whether or not they believe in that religion? (This seems to be the case in the muslim countries I am familiar with, except Turkey, and even that appears to be heading this way)

Would this work along the lines of forbidding the drinking of alcohol...therefore it is okay to soak bread in wine, and 'eat' alcohol?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 09:24 am
Religion of Peace? Islam's War Against the World
Chapter 1: Obscuring the Issue
by Gregory Davis
Like other religions, Islam sees the universe in terms of good and evil; but unlike other religions, in Islam good and evil have expressly political significance. Islamic theology divides the world into two spheres locked in perpetual conflict: the House of Islam and the House of War. The House of Islam (dar al-Islam) embraces those lands where Islamic law (Sharia) is the law of the land, while the House of War (dar al-harb) comprises the rest of the world. The House of Islam is enjoined by Allah to make war upon the House of War until the latter is permanently assimilated into the former. The term jihad, which literally means "struggle", denotes the military effort to bring new lands into the House of Islam. While the state of war between the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds is sometimes hot and sometimes cold, it is permanent until Sharia law reigns over the entire planet.

It is crucial to understand that Islam's division of the world into the House of Islam and the House of War is not merely a question of practice but of principle. In the Islamic worldview, Sharia law (which comprises the commandments of the Koran and the precedents and teachings of Muhammad) is the only legitimate means of organizing society; any other social or political system violates the edicts of Allah himself. While every religion distinguishes between believers and unbelievers, Islam draws a capital distinction between political-legal regimes: those in submission (Islam) to Allah's law and those in rebellion.

Because most Americans and Europeans misunderstand the political nature of Islam, they talk about Islamic terrorism as if it bears no relationship to Islam proper. But the notion that authentic religion in general is naturally peaceful is a Western prejudice rather than a demonstrated truth. In order to understand the origins of Islamic violence, we must be willing to discard many comforting assumptions and try to see the world from an Islamic point of view. Acquiring a basic grasp of the Islamic worldview does not require learning Arabic or taking a pilgrimage to Mecca. But it does require investment of some time and thought to become familiar with the origins and history of Islam and the life of its founder, the Prophet Muhammad. Few Westerners have made such an investment, preferring instead to assume blindly that Muslims practicing their faith are not so very different from the true believers of other religions. That assumption is not only wrong - it is deadly.


Of course, Muslims (like Christians, Jews, and members of any religion) often fail to understand or live up to the standards of their faith. But what distinguishes Islam from other religions is that when it is correctly understood and practiced, Islam actively seeks the subjugation or destruction of everything that is not itself. Non-Islamic religions may seek the conversion or evangelization of others, and their devotees may employ force against others from time to time. But Islam is the only religion whose basic animating principles pit it against the rest of the world, ensuring that war is the natural and obligatory state of affairs.

The dichotomy Islam makes between the House of Islam and the House of War is suggestive of other, more modern ideologies such as Communism and National Socialism. Both Communism and National Socialism divide the world into two warring spheres based on political orientation. While Communism and National Socialism find inspiration in economic or racial theories of history, Islam is inspired by Allah and Muhammad even while it shares the expansionary political goals of the other two. Islam is not only a religion that orients the individual and collective towards a divinity, but also a political system divinely ordained to encompass the entire earth. Islam is in fact a kind of state, a polity that transcends conventional political boundaries. Once one appreciates that Islam is as much political-territorial as it is religious, one can see that for an individual or society to refuse the rule of Islam is an act not of impiety but of rebellion, which is properly dealt with by force. It is also easy to understand the obligation of Muslims to kill apostates (Muslims who leave Islam) since defecting from Islam constitutes not an act of conscience but of treason.

The secular West would do well to bear in mind that, however strange it may seem today, for most of history civilizations and peoples were defined by the gods they worshipped, and it was the character of those gods that shaped individual and collective action. It has only been in the past few hundred years that the god one worships was eclipsed by apparently more important factors such as ethnicity, nationality, class, or political party. With the current resurgence of Islamic violence and cultural imperialism, we are cast back into the pre-modern paradigm. Today's preachers of "multiculturalism" and "tolerance", who champion Islam at the expense of Western mores, demonstrate ignorance of a suicidal order. They fail to recognize that true Islam embodies a multiculturalist's worst fears: an unwavering conviction in its own cultural superiority, a readiness to use force to spread its dominion, and a systematic disregard for those weaker than or different from itself



Source

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/religionofpeace_ch1.aspx
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 10:39 am
the article by Davis makes some good points.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 10:59 am
Eek!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:02 am
eek what? are you in pain neo?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:45 am
Davis points out a few scary things I had not been aware of. He makes sense.

Therefore, eek!
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 02:29 pm
I've just been watching a programme about Christians who have converted from Islam living in fear for their lives. They've been targetted, beaten, their property vandalised and driven out of their homes by radical Islamists who regard them as apostates. They say the hadiths stipulate punishment for conversion as death. Where does this outrage take place? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Probably. But this was a film made about the Muslim community in Bradford England.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 04:13 pm
And our leader say's Islam is a religion of peace. Yes about as peaceful as a poisonous snake in the grass
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Sep, 2007 03:50 am
au1929 wrote:
And our leader say's Islam is a religion of peace. Yes about as peaceful as a poisonous snake in the grass
Thats just playing with people's psychology, giving contradictory or confusing messages. Its designed to keep people unsettled, nervous and compliant. Ultimately it keeps people easier to manage and less likely to question executive decisions.

Islam is nonsense. A tiny minority of Islamists are really dangerous. But that is not what this war is about. Its about consolidating control over the middle east and its resources. Its a war between the west and governments we have installed in that region to do our bidding on one side and the governments and people of the middle east who reject western imperialism, and who want a greater say in the exploitation of the resources that lie beneath their feet.

Afghanistan was about oil and gas pipelines. Iraq was about oil and gas. Iran will be about oil gas and "defending" Israel and the world reserve currency status of the dollar. Islam is nonsense, but this war has nothing to do with religion, excepting that religious affilliation is a convenient tag to identify the enemy. Otherwise the people wont understand.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Sep, 2007 07:57 am
March 22, 2004
The Islamification of Europe
On the op-ed page of the "Wall Street Journal" (subscription required) is a remarkable article by Johns Hopkins professor Fouad Ajami on how radical Islam has been nurtured specifically in Europe, and why the Europeans feel they must be on the Arabs' side, even as they are threatened by an unassimilated and growing population that owes them no loyalty.

Europeans imported huge numbers of Muslim laborers in the 1960's. Their numbers swelled as refugees fled the wars and tyrannies of their own countries. The mideast regimes were so oppressive that the dissidents fled to Europe, where they took advantage of the freedom they could never have at home to develop their radical Islamic ideologies. And, according to Ajami, as the immigrant population booms and the native Europeans have fewer and fewer children, the radicalized Muslims are gaining more and more power in the European democracies. But while they are willing to take advantage of the opportunities afforded in their new homelands, the Muslims are insisting that they owe allegiance to no nationality; only to Islam.

A sample from Ajami's article:

Satellite TV has been crucial in the making of this new radicalism. Preachers take to the air, and reach Muslims wherever they are. From the safety of Western cities, they counsel belligerence and inveigh against assimilation. They forbid shaking hands with women examiners at universities. They warn against offering greetings to "infidels" on their religious holidays, or serving in the armies and police of the new lands. "A Muslim has no nationality except his belief," wrote an intellectual godfather of radical Islamism, the Egyptian Sayyid Qutb, who was executed by Nasser in 1966. While on a visit to Saudi Arabia in 2002, I listened to a caller from Stockholm as he bared his concerns to an immensely popular preacher. He made Qutb's point: We may carry their nationalities, he said, but we belong to our own religion.
Radical Islamism's adherents are unapologetic. What is laicite (secularism) to the Muslims in France and their militant leaders? It is but the code of a debauched society that wishes to impose on Islam's children -- its young women in particular -- the ways of an infidel culture. What loyalty, at any rate, is owed France? The wrath of France's Muslim youth in the banlieues (suburbs) is seen as revenge on France for its colonial wars. France colonized Algeria in the 1830s; Algerians, along with Tunisians and Moroccans, return the favor in our own time.

France grants its troubled Muslim suburbs everything and nothing. It leaves them to their own devices, and grants them an unstated power over its foreign policy decisions on Islamic and Middle Eastern matters; but it makes no room for them in the mainstream of its life. Trouble has come even to placid Belgium. In Antwerp, Dyab Abu Jahjah, a young Lebanese, only 32, has stepped forth to "empower" the Muslims of that country. Assimilation, he says, is but "cultural rape." He came to Belgium in 1991, and he owns up to inventing a story about persecution back home; it was a "low political trick," he says, and in the nature of things. The constitution of Belgium recognizes Dutch, French, and German as official languages. Abu Jahjah insists that Arabic be added, too.

Europe's leaders know Europe's dilemmas. In ways both intended and subliminal, the escape into anti-Americanism is an attempt at false bonding with the peoples of Islam. Give the Arabs -- and the Muslim communities implanted in Europe -- anti-Americanism, give them an identification with the Palestinians, and you shall be spared their wrath. Beat the drums of opposition to America's war in Iraq, and the furies of this radical Islamism will pass you by. This is seen as a way around the troubles. But there is no exit that way.


This explain a lot.

Posted by Veith at March 22, 2004 05:29 PM
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