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The Shroud of Turin - Is It a Hoax?

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Dorothy Parker
 
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 02:32 pm
Just watched a fascinating programme about this which suggets that the carbon dating carried out in the eighties may have been flawed as the sample of the fabric they took was from a contaminated area. (contaminated by being handles by so many people over the years.)

What do you think?
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bungie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 02:52 pm
Re: The Shroud of Turin - Is It a Hoax?
Dorothy Parker wrote:
Just watched a fascinating programme about this which suggets that the carbon dating carried out in the eighties may have been flawed as the sample of the fabric they took was from a contaminated area. (contaminated by being handles by so many people over the years.)

What do you think?


Personally I think carbon dating itself is questionable. Shells of live mollusks have been dated at 2300 years, a recently killed seal was dated at 1300 years. Even the inventor, Professor Libby, acknowledged that the system was only good for dating material between 5000 and at the most 10,000 years.
And as mentioned above, contamination can be a problem.
Just my 2 cents worth.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 03:08 pm
Turin itself is a hoax. Turin didn't exist until following WW II when it was created as part of the Marshall Plan for creating a new europe from the ashes of the old europe using paper mache, chicken wire and gesso. It must be remembered that Italy has been in a state on anarchy for 2,000 years. As far as carbon dating goes, I don't mind dating carbon based life forms but they generally are incapable to telling the truth (you're how old?, they also pollute). I don't use shrouds as I am a winter complected kinda guy.
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 03:40 pm
Its a hoax, even if it was dated to the correct date all it proves is that the material is that old, doesn't mean the image couldn't be added later, plus the image is too flat, it would have to have been stretched and distorted due to the way it would have lay on a person
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coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2007 12:57 pm
I thing the most compelling evidence that it was a hoax was presented on a PBS "Secrets of the Dead" program. click here

The best evidence is that the image of the face on the shroud shows a two dimensional image as if a photograph was taken of a face straight on from the front. When you put dye on a face then put a cloth over the face to pick up the dye, you get a three dimensional impression that, when flattened out, is much wider than an image shot straight on from the front. The image on the cloth barely resembles a face at all because it shows each side of the face together as if they were viewed straight on. The hoaxer was very clumsy and thoughtless to forget this.
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Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2007 10:04 am
The Shroud is a medieval hoax. Here is the report of the 1988 radiocarbon dating.
Quote:
The shroud was separated from the backing cloth along its bottom left-hand edge and a strip (~10 mm x 70 mm) was cut from just above the place where a sample was previously removed in 1973 for examination. The strip came from a single site on the main body of the shroud away from any patches or charred areas.

If there are questions about the original sample being contaminated, why don't they just repeat the radiocarbon dating with a new sample after washing it?
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BDV
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2007 03:47 pm
Terry wrote:
If there are questions about the original sample being contaminated, why don't they just repeat the radiocarbon dating with a new sample after washing it?


That would be too easy
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2007 05:54 pm
EVERYTHING about religion is a hoax. It's little more than an instrument of control.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2007 06:04 pm
below is a link to an article about the shroud of turin .
i have no idea how correct the information is , but i did find the article quite entertaining .
hbg

...SHROUD OF TURIN...
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talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2007 08:32 pm
I have a book that explains how Leonardo Da Vinci perpetrated the fraud using crude pinbox photography to create the negative image. Many of the Renaissance paintings could have been created using this technology to bring perspective into 3D landscapes. Remember the camera was not invented till a few hundred years after Leanardo's discoveries.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Apr, 2007 09:13 pm
talk72000 wrote:
I have a book that explains how Leonardo Da Vinci perpetrated the fraud using crude pinbox photography to create the negative image. Many of the Renaissance paintings could have been created using this technology to bring perspective into 3D landscapes. Remember the camera was not invented till a few hundred years after Leanardo's discoveries.


If it's a original DaVinci, it makes it very valuable as art. However, the shroud was already know before DaVinci came on the scene. It's probably a hoax from the late 13th century based on the fabric and style of the figure. There were actually a few "true" shrouds floating around Europe in the Middle Ages. The Church declared the others fakes long ago. Many such relics were created to fool the mass (and they still do today). I once read that there are so many pieces of the "true cross" that if they were all put together the cross would have been 50 feet high and 30 feet wide. My favorite is the story of the Virgin Mary's little pinky finger bones - there are five them in different churches. I don't know why people find these trinkets important to support their faith, but apparently they do.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 01:51 pm
green witch wrote :

Quote:
My favorite is the story of the Virgin Mary's little pinky finger bones - there are five them in different churches.


the answer is simple : if there are five little pinky finger bones in five different churches , mary did indeed have five little pinky fingers .
any questions about that ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Apr, 2007 05:34 am
The shroud of Turin is both a wonder and a marvel wherever it's origins stem from.

It is a priceless artifact of the past. It's authenticity has frequently been questioned but it's allure will always endure.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 05:43 pm
Totally agree with that. 100%.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 06:09 pm
Quote:
The shroud of Turin is both a wonder and a marvel wherever it's origins stem from.

It is a priceless artifact of the past. It's authenticity has frequently been questioned but it's allure will always endure.


Proving once again that P.T. Barnum was right.

Joe(This way to see the wonders of the egress!)Nation
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 06:17 pm
Re: The Shroud of Turin - Is It a Hoax?
bungie wrote:
Dorothy Parker wrote:
Just watched a fascinating programme about this which suggets that the carbon dating carried out in the eighties may have been flawed as the sample of the fabric they took was from a contaminated area. (contaminated by being handles by so many people over the years.)

What do you think?


Personally I think carbon dating itself is questionable. Shells of live mollusks have been dated at 2300 years, a recently killed seal was dated at 1300 years. Even the inventor, Professor Libby, acknowledged that the system was only good for dating material between 5000 and at the most 10,000 years.
And as mentioned above, contamination can be a problem.
Just my 2 cents worth.


Bungie,

From this one post... I can correctly deduce that you are a Bible-believing Christian.

Tell me I am right.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 07:38 pm
The fact that contemporary science is at a complete loss as to how the shroud was made speaks of it's integrity.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 07:45 pm
First, we have to establish that a real Jesus existed, before investing any belief in this object.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 07:46 pm
I was once told that a traditional Hebrew burial ritual (which the Bible says Jesus had) would have been wrapped in linen the other way and not long wise, like a mummy and not headlong like the shroud.

Knowing that I still think the shroud is an interesting artifact.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 07:48 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
First, we have to establish that a real Jesus existed, before investing any belief in this object.


Whether if Jesus existed or not the story of Jesus exists and therefore the consciousness of his message.
0 Replies
 
 

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