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Southern Baptists in Stealth Mode

 
 
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 10:56 am
"A rose by any other name "?

Quote:


http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/faith/172912
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 672 • Replies: 7
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 02:00 pm
I see churches with names like that...I always think they're up to something.
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Phoenix32890
 
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Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 02:29 pm
I am naturally leery of any organization which packages itself to disguise what it is really about! Evil or Very Mad
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kate4christ03
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2007 05:25 pm
the funny thing is, the southern baptist denomination is the largest protestant denomination and still growing. Any group lying about their denominational affiliation seems fishy to me.
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mesquite
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2007 06:13 pm
Did you go to the link for the whole article Kate? I only quoted just a small part of it.
Quote:
Benesh's salary is paid by the Southern Baptist Convention's North American Mission Board, which oversees church planting. Mission board spokesman Mike Ebert says the denomination has 221 church-planting missionaries like Benesh working across the United States and Canada.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/faith/172912

Are you familiar with the recent history of The Baptist Foundation of Arizona? Did your congregation chip in to help out these people? Did you even hear about it?

Quote:
The financial crash in 1999 of the Baptist Foundation of Arizona, a subsidiary of the Southern Baptist Convention of Arizona, the largest collapse of a religious financial institution in the nation's history, resulted with many elderly sheep.. hurt and devastated. For all of its talk of love, compassion and good works the Southern Baptists leadership did very little to change and reverse this tragic situation.

Restoring Our Integrity, a grassroots effort seeking to repay Baptist Foundation of Arizona investors and restore Southern Baptists' integrity, has ceased operations reported the (Southern) Baptists Press on April 18, 2000. Under this plan the Arizona Southern Baptist churches were asked to contribute 1 percent of their undesignated receipts to cover administrative
costs, and funds received from individuals nationwide were to go toward repaying BFA investors' losses.

Only 66 Arizona Southern Baptist churches and missions, out of about 400 congregations, had pledged to support the ROI plan, said Larry Deskins, pastor of Gateway Fellowship, SBC, Gilbert, Ariz., who was spearheading the ROI effort. Another effort the Jerusalem Fund which was began last September, has only raised $384,918 so far.

Steve Bass, Arizona Southern Baptist Convention executive director- treasurer, said the churches' lack of commitment to ROI should not be construed as a lack of concern for BFA investors. "We're proud of our
congregations for what they have been doing," Bass said.

"There is no glass jar in the backyard of the Arizona Southern Baptist Convention where I can go dig up these assets," said Bass. "That's the same truth with the national convention. . . . There are some people who maybe misunderstand . . . [and think] we're like Roman Catholics who have all these assets in our offices. . . . Well, that's not true."

But it was the Southern Baptist convention who supported and propagated the support of the $640 million Ponzi scheme that enriched insiders. Private companies controlled by one insider, former BFA director Harold Friend, were paid about $11 million from BFA and its maze of related companies from November 1998 to November 1999,

However Armstrong, a retired Southern Baptist minister, and his wife, Lois, 76, need money from BFA and can't get a penny. He suffers from diabetes, cancer and a liver malady. The Armstrongs sold their Casa Grande home in June and wired the proceeds, about $160,000, to their BFA account. In all, the Armstrongs had entrusted about $460,000 to BFA. Their "investments" amounted to promissory notes. BFA borrowed their money at a high rate, and promised to pay it back , reported the Phoneix News Times. (http://phoenixnewtimes.com)

BFA didn't keep its promises. It filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in November, claiming $640 million in debts and $160 million to $200 million in assets. Now the Armstrongs are living in their RV. It is the only home they can afford.
http://www.cephas-library.com/baptists/s_baptists_financial_collapse.html
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kate4christ03
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2007 06:33 pm
yes i did read it and am familiar with the whole concept they are trying to do. I was agreeing with phoenix. I probably shouldnt have said "lying" . But i really don't see how taking Baptist out of a church name, but still being baptist is effective and honest. In tom rainers book Suprising Insights from the unchurched he does a study showing how removing the name baptist doesn't help in church growth, but can actually hinder it. And seeing as how i don't live in az, no my church wasn't asked to help fund the az baptists. That is a completely different state convention.But my church does send a big portion of our tithes to namb which oversees the transplanting of sbc churches to an extent. And this is actually a heated topic of debate I do within the sbc.
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mesquite
 
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Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2007 08:02 pm
Thanks for the insight kate. it looks like we pretty much agree on this one, though I would think that there would be more sympathy / compassion towards fellow Baptists that were duped. Many were elderly that lost most of their life savings because they trusted in the church.
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Mar, 2007 08:24 pm
your welcome mesquite. I think that on the subject of the money scandal, that article didn't give enough. I would like to know more about it. But i agree anyone who steals while hiding under the banner of a church is a sorry excuse for a human. I hope that the sbc and other baptists are able to help these people who were victims of the theft. NOw i don't think that has much relevance to the church plant movement(where "baptist" is taken out of the church name). Other than the fact, some baptists in az are apparently using that as a reason to not name a church Baptist. But i still don't think its right to hide the denomination of a church to outsiders who may want to go to that church.
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