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Fish, A.I. & Doomsday

 
 
Chumly
 
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2007 11:57 pm
Asia and Russia aside, even Canada is taking more fish than makes sense, and we do this even though few Canadian fishermen could make commercial fishing economically viable within the short fishing season, without the generous government income benefits called "Employment Insurance".

The Canadian government pays big Employment Insurance benefits that allow Canadian fishermen to sit around for the better portion of the year waiting for the short time their license allows them to fish.

What this means is that Canadian fishermen don't really care if they make money catching fish, as much as they care about keeping their fishing license and making a show of continuing to fish. Thus even if the fish stocks were very low (as they in fact are) Canadian fisherman would still go out to fish so as to collect the generous Employment Insurance benefits.

The fact of the matter is that the two main benefits for Canadian fisherman are the generous government income benefits for sitting around most of the year, and the money they can get for selling their fishing license when they sell out.

So my Canadian tax payer dollars go to support the destruction of both west and east coast fish stock, up to and including the point of removing all fish!

Farm subsidies in the US are absolutely no better as is the case with the Canadian farm subsidies. There is nothing scared or holy or essential about farming when it's uneconomic and environmentally destructive.

Animal farming being the worse of plant faming in general, given that there is rarely good enough reason to consume cattle, and pigs, chicken when plants can provide similarly with much less environmental devastation and much higher efficiencies.

But even the above arguments pale in comparison to the essential one:

Everyone on earth could live like royally, own a 100 acres of prime land, have a private jet and yacht, eat fillet and steelhead at every meal, own a gas guzzling V8 SUV etc, with nary a long term eco-footprint problem!

How you ask? It's really very simple, keep the global population at no more than 10 million. Thus I (rhetorically) ask: what is the net advantage of having billions of people?

We appear bound for a sizable global level of self-destruction because of our own sexual success!

It is in essence our blinding drive to have children that is our downfall and not over-fishing, or destroying bees, or animal farming per se.

That people still celebrate birth when it implies the doom of mankind on earth is stunningly ignorant. No personal offence meant to any and all but that facts are undeniable that the burgeoning population is the underlying cause of our present eco-global problems and not misuse of resources per se.

My main point: benign evolutionary and/or social structures that can moderate the types of extreme imbalances we now experience are exceedingly rare (if it can be agued they exist at all).
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 12:49 am
Chumly,

I can't comment on the Canadian fishing situation except to say variations of the malaise are rife in Europe. As to the doomsday scenario, do you not think it is the case that war, famine and disease are "nature's way" of providing a potential limit to overpopulation? It seems to me that "going green" is merely an intellectual palliative with which Westerners counter their "guilt" of conspicuous consumption, and that much larger regulatory mechanisms ("Gaia ?") are operating beyond the "self interests" of any individual.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 12:57 am
I wish I did not agree with you about the usual mechanisms of war, famine and disease. My guess however is that war, famine and disease won't be enough to stem the tide of eco-meltdown and in fact some of them such as war may well speed up this process. I'd be very interested in hearing about benign evolutionary and/or social structures that can moderate the extremes we find ourselves in.

I also (alas!) have to agree with you about the net results of going green versus Gaia. I left the part out about A.I. (as found in the title), it kind'a wandered, you know how it is when it's late!
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 03:54 am
Are you proposing exterminating the majority of earth's population? That could get messy, and I think we'd end up exterminating everyone... Twisted Evil

I agree with you that a big problem is the sheer number of people on this planet.

I remember when I was fifteen and proposed in a school debate that maybe the best course of action, concerning countries where famine strikes almost at a regular basis, would be to sit on the fence and let nature run it's course.
My proposition was not even considered, of course. Too barbaric, they said.
Sure, I said, and going in with just enough means to keep them on the brink of starvation in a land that can never support that many people no matter what they do is so much more civilized.

The fact is that extreme measures may well be required to preserve humanity. Not in the form of action, but in the form of inaction when our actions cannot do more than satisfy our need to feel good about ourselves. We seem to be incapacitated by our moral confusions.

Doctors realize that if death is inevitable, fighting it will only cause more suffering to everyone involved.

A part of me does believe that science may come up with a solution to how we can all live as we do without destroying our habitat. But for the time being, capitalism stands in the way of that scenario ever becoming a reality.
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 01:28 pm
Good points, if we do not make the tough choices now, it will likely be that much more gruesome if left to the future. I do take expectation to your viewpoints on capitalism because (from my perspective of capitalism), it's been around since the first Arabian Bazaars (if not well before).
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 01:33 pm
"So long, and thanks for all the fish!" haha
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Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 01:37 pm
I should add my definition of capitalism would be to use material assets to build material assets (over-simplified for the sake of argument within the context of this thread).
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2007 02:49 pm
stuh

I didn't realize you are a dolphin...
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