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Winning in Iraq?

 
 
cjhsa
 
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 12:04 pm
It appears the "surge" is working...

The "in thing" to do in Iraq right now is to turn in members of Al Sadr's militia, which has consistently targeted civilians and avoided the U.S. and coatlition forces. Their tactics have finally convinced the citizens to side with the U.S.

700 of Al Sadr's militia have been captured.

Let's hope this trend continues.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 755 • Replies: 13
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 12:28 pm
USA Today
Posted : Tuesday Mar 13, 2007 12:24:31 EDT

Coalition forces have detained about 700 members of the Mahdi Army, the largest Shiite militia in Baghdad, the top U.S. commander in Iraq said Monday.

The militia, loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, has mostly avoided a direct confrontation with U.S. and Iraqi forces, Gen. David Petraeus said in an interview with USA Today.

Many of the militia's top leaders have left the capital, and Iraqi government officials have been in talks with al-Sadr's political organization in an effort to disband the militia.

"I think, in part, one reason that al-Sadr's militia has been lying low ... is due to some of the discussions being held," Petraeus said in a telephone interview from Baghdad. "It's also in part due to some of the leaders leaving Baghdad" and others being arrested, he said.

Over the weekend, Iran and Syria pledged to support moves to stabilize Iraq, including reconciliation among Iraq's factions, at a meeting with a U.S. envoy in Baghdad.

However, U.S. and Iraqi leaders have questioned Iran's commitment to backing such American-led efforts.

David Satterfield, the U.S. envoy, said he had evidence that Iran was arming Shiite Muslim militias in Iraq, which his Iranian counterpart, Abbas Araghchi, vehemently denied. He called such accusations a "cover" for U.S. failures in Iraq.

Petraeus said in an interview released Monday that it's "indisputable" that Iran is training and arming militants to fight against U.S.-led troops in Iraq. He also told ABC News that suicide bombers are streaming across Iraq's border from Syria and making their way into the country's volatile western Anbar province.

Petraeus said there are elements of Iran's Revolutionary Guards elite Quds Force that are training fighters and sending them into Iraq to fight U.S.-led forces. He said Iran is also sending "rockets, mortars and other explosives and munitions" into the country.

"That's indisputable and again it's a very, very problematic situation for our soldiers and Iraqi soldiers," he told ABC. "And if it's something that can be brought to a halt through these initiatives of the Iraqi government, we would applaud that vigorously," he said.

Petraeus, who took command last month, is leading an effort to reassert control in Baghdad by moving American forces off large bases and into smaller outposts throughout the capital. The outposts are manned by U.S. and Iraqi forces.

Operations in Sadr City are being conducted in close coordination with Iraqi security forces, Petraeus said.

"We're going slowly there," he said. "We just want to keep nudging this forward in the constructive way that it has gone forward."

"Many people have said that our soldiers and the Iraqi army and police forces have been welcomed in those portions of Sadr City," Petraeus said. "Over time, the Mahdi Army, as with all the militias, has to be disarmed, demobilized and reintegrated into society in some fashion."

The militia will not be allowed to join the Iraqi security forces as an organization.

Last year, Shiite militias infiltrated some Iraqi security forces, which eroded public confidence in police and army units.


The Associated Press contributed to this story.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 01:00 pm
Apparently this prospect has scared the crap out of a lot of folks here as well.

I'll be.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 01:43 pm
Such wonderful things we have accomplished there. All because of our altruistic nature.

We should hold our heads high and walk through the world and accept gifts for our benevolence.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 01:46 pm
Quote:
First Published 2007-03-14, Last Updated 2007-03-14 10:01:54

Spinned Surge

The claims that the US military escalation in Iraq is working are more ?'public relations' than based on evidence. Years past have shown a (predicted) lull in the violence this time of year, only to grow again in the Spring. Moreover, General Petraeus' own manual on counterinsurgency rules his 'surge' plan to be inadequate, says Justin Logan.


The job of neoconservative writers analyzing the Iraq war has largely been to obscure objective analysis and provide talking points for war supporters. Robert Kagan's column in Sunday's Washington Post (promptly distributed by the Bush administration in its "Iraq Update" email early Monday) fulfills that role with aplomb. Simultaneously smearing opponents of the war (not to mention journalists) as praying for failure and proclaiming that "the surge is succeeding," Kagan adds to his regrettable legacy of undue optimism.

There are some basic problems of logic in his attack on the media. Kagan suggests that American journalists are so invested in seeing the surge fail to pacify Iraq that he is forced to "wonder if the Post and other newspapers have a backup plan in case it does." But then Kagan goes on to use information from, well, American journalists to assemble data indicating that violence in Baghdad has ebbed; that Iraqi attitudes have turned from pessimism; that an oil sharing law is nearing completion; that the Iraqi Ministry of Interior recently conducted a purge of its personnel; and that the Mahdi Army has gone to ground. Kagan closes by pleading that "no one is asking American journalists to start emphasizing the 'good' news. All they have to do is report on what is occurring, though it may conflict with their previous judgments." But, of course, American journalists have provided the very fodder for Mr. Kagan's argument.


The more troubling aspect of the Kagan piece, however, is the substantive claim: that the surge is working. The first problem with this argument is that the surge has hardly gotten underway yet. Earlier this month, none other than General David Petraeus remarked that "we've just started" with the surge and that only two of the five projected brigades had even arrived. The claim that two brigades (less than 10,000 troops) have transformed Baghdad is either mendacious or simply daft. A more sober view comes from President Bush, who recently announced his plan to send almost 5,000 more U.S. troops into Iraq on top of the 21,500 already promised.

A more honest line of argument, which Kagan flirts with making in his article, is that the recent downtick in violence is partly a result of Shia militias having gone to ground in Baghdad, content to sit out the surge as long as possible, wait for it to fail (a failure manifested by Sunni insurgents' ability to wreak havoc, surge or no surge), and then reemerge as the protectors of the Shia faithful. The recent bombings during the Shiite celebration of Ashura are one alarming indicator that this process easily could unfold.

But the most damning fact about the "surge is working" narrative is that the violence in Iraq always has been cyclical, with dips in violence occurring every year in the months from January through March or April. So, in fact, the decline in violence Kagan observes was entirely predictable, and indeed was predicted. The Pentagon's own "Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq" report pointed out that by the end of 2006, the violence in Iraq had reached its highest level since the war began, and so the downtick should be viewed in that context. But what appears likely to happen is what has happened since the beginning of the war: these temporary downticks do not stop the overall upward trend of violence in Iraq.

The president and supporters of the war protest that we should "give the surge a chance to succeed" before criticizing it. But since the plan in place defies, for one, the joint Army-Marine Corps counterinsurgency manual authored by General Petraeus himself, this is akin to wishful thinking. By the metric of Petraeus and countless others, to run a serious counterinsurgency campaign in Iraq, we would need 500,000 troops; if we could somehow sequester Baghdad and only fight there, we would need roughly 120,000 troops.

A miracle in Iraq just may happen, and all Americans would be relieved if it did. It may also happen that Israelis and Palestinians decide that fighting is not in their interests and spontaneously lay down their arms. Banking on such events, though, is an unsound basis for the formation of national policy.

To borrow Kagan's own formulation, no one is asking neoconservative polemicists to admit how wrong they have been, consistently, about the Iraq war. All they have to do is begin looking at facts and data instead of pretending that wishful thinking and spin can save this disastrous war.

Justin Logan is a foreign policy analyst at the Cato Institute and a member of the Coalition for a Realistic Foreign Policy.

Copyright © 2007 The American Prospect


http://cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8134
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 01:57 pm
Yes, everyone is so impressed with the handling of this war that the Iraqi's are erecting this sculpture of George and his good friend Osama in the center of the Baghdad market. Thank God everything went according to plan, it could have been a bloody mess.

http://maxmagnusnorman.com/skulptur/usama-bin-laden-george-w-bush-jr_1.jpg
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 02:54 pm
It's killing you guys, isn't it?
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 04:14 pm
I definitely hope that peace is achieved in Iraq. Surge or no surge.






My BS detector, however, flashes when you start crowing about victory after so short a time.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 04:18 pm
cjhsa wrote:
It's killing you guys, isn't it?


No, it's killing thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 04:21 pm
Green Witch wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
It's killing you guys, isn't it?


No, it's killing thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

Like every war (of any size) in history did, therefore every war in history was immoral, right?
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 04:25 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Green Witch wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
It's killing you guys, isn't it?


No, it's killing thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

Like every war (of any size) in history did, therefore every war in history was immoral, right?

Only if you consider killing people and taking their things to be immoral.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 04:34 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Green Witch wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
It's killing you guys, isn't it?


No, it's killing thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

Like every war (of any size) in history did, therefore every war in history was immoral, right?


Brandon, So do you think our trillions in tax money and our soldiers lives are being sacrificed for a good cause? Rebuilding Iraq is how you want to continue spending US taxes? Do you think this war is worth destabilized the Middle East and empowering countries like Iran? Will you still be praising this war when groups like the Taliban, or countries like Iran and Syria, take over Iraq and use it as their base to launch their hatred of us? Do you like paying $3 a gallon for gas? If someone other than a Conservative Republican came up with this "Free Iraq" idea would you support it so fully?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 04:35 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Green Witch wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
It's killing you guys, isn't it?


No, it's killing thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

Like every war (of any size) in history did, therefore every war in history was immoral, right?


What is immoral is the fact that this war was totally unnecessary and built on the lies of the warmongers of the in the White House.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2007 06:18 pm
What is immoral is that someone gave you a soapbox to stand on.

Loser lefties are invested in failure in Iraq. Their 401k's depend on it.
0 Replies
 
 

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