Cain and Abel (Murder)

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Do you guys think that Cain should be charged of murdering his brother Abel, in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd degree?

I think he should be charged with 3rd degree murder. I dont think it was intentional, more like an accident (manslaughter) in my opinion.

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Yeah, I agree. He just got pissed off and picked up a rock. Hard to prove any premeditation or even intent.

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How 'bout genocide? I mean, if you take the Bible literally, he killed 25% of the entire population.

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Nah, it was simply a case of sibling rivalry. No biggie. Cain should be sent to his room, and have his Playstation impounded.

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Able was showing off, hogging the spotlight. He incited hie brother to murder.

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Were there any laws? No laws, no official murder.

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Then Cain obviously went out and married his sister. Apparently Eden was near to West Virginia.

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Cain and Able are still brothers.

A metaphorical interpretation:

In the same way we see similarities between the words good and god, evil and devil, implying that the words god and devil are manifestations of absolute good and evil, there are similarities between these two words (names).

Cain - can't, able - well.. able.

So in all of us, cain is still killing able every day. It is a metaphor of how doubt inhibits potential in humans. To say "I can't" is to strangle the possibility that "I am able". (Or to bash it with a rock).

My guess is that this form of indesicion has been with humans for as long as they've had the ability to decide anything.

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Cyracuz wrote:

Cain and Able are still brothers.

A metaphorical interpretation:

In the same way we see similarities between the words good and god, evil and devil, implying that the words god and devil are manifestations of absolute good and evil, there are similarities between these two words (names).

Cain - can't, able - well.. able.

So in all of us, cain is still killing able every day. It is a metaphor of how doubt inhibits potential in humans. To say "I can't" is to strangle the possibility that "I am able". (Or to bash it with a rock).

My guess is that this form of indesicion has been with humans for as long as they've had the ability to decide anything.

The only thing wrong with your otherwise very clever interpretation, Cyracuz, is that it is predicated on the use of the English language. The word for God in Hebrew is not 'god' nor does the English word 'able' have anything to do with having ability.

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How so? Of one is able, does that not mean that one has either ability or oportunity?

And god is not "god" in hebrew, but what is "good" in hebrew?

These are questions that would be fun to have answered for their own sake, but in the end, you are entirely right, of course. It is predicated on the english language. :wink:

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Cyracuz wrote:

...but what is "good" in hebrew?

...

Tov (rhymes with grove).

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Tov...

And god is Jehova, or Yahew? Or is that jewish?

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Genesis 4
Cain and Abel

1 Adam [a] lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth [c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." [d] And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

I wasn't there, but it seems a little premeditated to me!

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Cyracuz wrote:

Tov...

And god is Jehova, or Yahew? Or is that jewish?

Yahweh. Er, Jews speak Hebrew when praying. There is no such language as "Jewish"; you may be thinking of Yiddish.

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tomasso wrote:

Genesis 4
Cain and Abel

1 Adam [a] lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth [c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." [d] And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

I wasn't there, but it seems a little premeditated to me!

I blame the lord.

"The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor."

What kind of god gorges on meat, while refusing fruit and vegies? What kind of example is this? Was god, like, watching its carbs, or what? We have a fat god here? The almighty and omnipotent can't manage its avoirdupois?

And all this omniscience......god KNEW Cain was gonna crack the shits when god didn't eat its vegies? But STILL it doesn't eat its goddam (...er pardon me)....vegies? It lets a man DIE over vegetable anorexia?

Oy veh, this god don't know from god.

No mama, that's the problem. God had no mama to tell it to eat its vegies, and make nice when someone gives it a present, already.

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Jespah

Thanks for that clarification. It seems my wits were not all about me yesterday. :wink:

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Anent dlowan's post: agreed!

Actually, many theologically oriented anthropologists believe that the point of the Abel/Cain story is an allegory on the stress which developed between early herdsmen and early agriculturalists as the Mideast cultures drifted away from the hunter-gatherer life style. Cain is a farmer; Abel is a stockman, a drover. Those early societies weren't so far removed from their hunter-gatherer roots yet. The fruits they had picked had never been used as sacrifices to their gods; a portion of the hunt had always been so sacrificed. The priests were, no doubt, hide-bound (you should pardon the expression) and expected sacrifices to the Almighty (or -mighties) to continue according to tradition. So Cain's peeve is that the priests don't think his contribution to the sacrificial altar is good enough. The simplest solution? Do in that smeggin' Abel who's making Cain look like a nancy-boy who digs in the ground instead of boldly herding cattle.

Now, the fact that Cain comes out as the villain in the story indicates that at the time the Book of Genesis was written, the Hebrews still thought that meat was the proper sacrifice and that the harvesters of grain and vegetables weren't quite equal in importance to the stockmen or those few who still hunted with spear and club. It's an indication of how old this story must be.

Tomasso thinks there's evidence of premeditation? OK, then, we'll plead extenuating and mitigating circumstances.

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My pleasure, Cyr.

Interesting observation, MA. Do you think the Cain/Abel story is echoed in the Jacob/Esau story?

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jespah wrote:

My pleasure, Cyr.

Interesting observation, MA. Do you think the Cain/Abel story is echoed in the Jacob/Esau story?

To some extent, probably so, Jes. But it may also be a sly way casting aspersions on the legitimacy of whatever king was ruling over Judah at the time. The implication of the tale is that, no matter how great a patriarch Jacob was, he got his inheritance through dishonest means. At this time, remember, there were two kingdoms -- Judah and Israel. They weren't always on the best of terms and I can well imagine the scribes in one kingdom writing down some old rumors to discredit the rulers of the other.

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If anyone is interested, Steinbeck did a much better job with Cain and Able in "East of Eden".

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Cain and Abel (Murder)

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