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Jehovas Witnesses

 
 
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 06:59 am
Hey guys,
Today I was at the bus stop and some guy handed me a jehovas witness magaine caled 'awake'- for todays youth.
The title was very ironic since I dont think ive ever seen such a stupid and out-of-touch piece of crap.
It had some articles, one on how to say no if someone asks you to 'hook up' with them. Somehing to do with the internet being really bad and corrupting the youth and lots more rubbish. A point that I found particually hillarious was some 'quotes' by young people, that were so obviously made up. E.g:
'once when I was in class, some guy came up to me and asked me, up front for casual sex. I said 'No!' gave him a stern look, and walked away.'
etc.

However, it did make me realise I dont know anything much about jehovas witnesses, apart from the fact they knock on our door to stand and argue with my dad, and they don't celebrate birthdays. I mean, who actually is jehova?
I was going to write to the magazine company to ask more questions, but then I realised they would only send me more crap, so I thought I'd post on here.

Who is Jehova, and what does he do?

hehe pq xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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material girl
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:16 am
I thought Jehova was another name for Jesus! ie people who witnessed Jesus.
Cant say I know anything about it either, as I find most religions confusing(not difficult).

They have knocked at the door while I was at work once, I had a brief chat and was happy to take and read ther literature.
Cant recall anything enlightning from the words written.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:30 am
Ah, the amazing internet, where one only has to google Jehovah Witness beliefs to find an amazing amount of information....

JW Beliefs and Practices

Watchtower Main Site

Public Info/Media page

all this and more!
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:36 am
The Wiki version looks good:

Jehova's


When I lived in Brooklyn we had a window sign of a silhouette of two well dressed people holding a copy of the Watch Tower. The image was surround by a red circle with line through it. I didn't know it when I moved away that I would end up in an area that has one of the largest populations JW's and they often stop by. I wish I had kept the sign.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:44 am
Intersesting...briefly reading over a bit of the first link, I note that JW's believe the Bible as being literal, BUT, say that Jesus was the archangel Michael previously, and that a cross was not used (they reject the cross as pagan) to crucify Jesus, but a stake.


I know there's a few JW's here, and would be interested in the reasoning behind this.

I mean, not to get into a "you're wrong, no YOU'RE wrong" thing, but just to clarify and understand where someone is coming from.

There was a thread awhile back about blood transfusions and JW's, that got quite heated. It'd be nice to have a thread as a learning opportunity (she whistles in the wind)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 08:49 am
Quote:
Jehova's witness

an adherent of a millennialist sect that began in the United States in the 19th century and has since spread over much of the world; the group is an outgrowth of the International Bible Students Association founded in Pittsburgh, Pa., in 1872 by Charles Taze Russell (q.v.).

The name Jehovah's Witnesses was adopted in 1931 by Russell's successor, Joseph Franklin Rutherford (Judge Rutherford; 1869-1942), who sought to reaffirm Jehovah (see Yahweh) as the true God and to identify those who witness in this name as God's specially accredited followers. Rutherford equipped members with portable phonographs to play his "sermonettes" on the front porches and in the living rooms of prospective converts. Under his leadership, the democratic polity devised by Russell was replaced by a theocratic system directed from the society's headquarters in Brooklyn, N.Y.

Rutherford's policies were continued under his successor, Nathan Homer Knorr (1905-77), who established the Watch Tower Bible School of Gilead (South Lansing, N.Y.) to train missionaries and leaders, decreed that all the society's books and articles be published anonymously, and set up adult education programs to train Witnesses to deliver their own apologetical talks. Under Knorr's direction a group of Witnesses produced a new translation of the Bible. Knorr was succeeded by Frederick W. Franz.

The Witnesses have little or no association with other denominations and maintain a complete separation from all secular governments. They regard world powers and political parties as the unwitting allies of Satan. For this reason they refuse to salute the flag of any nation or to perform military services and almost never vote in public elections. Their suspicion of Satan's wiles also extends to religious denominations, and for many years they disavowed the use of such terms as minister, church, or congregation in their organizational structure.

This attitude has changed, but they are still exclusive and insulated from the ecumenical movement of the 20th century. Their avowed goal is the establishment of God's Kingdom, the Theocracy, which they believe will emerge following Armageddon, their basis for this assumption being the apocalyptic books of the Bible, especially Daniel and the Book of Revelation. They regard these books as God's timetable for world affairs and as the only authentic insight into the destiny of man. According to apocalyptic calculation, Pastor Russell established 1874 as the year of Christ's "invisible return" and designated 1914 as the year of Christ's Second Coming and the end of the "times of the gentiles." Date setting and prophecy among the Witnesses have given way, however, to a more contemporary analysis of modern life based on world events and what they regard as signs of the times.

Theologically they hold that Jesus Christ is God's agent in establishing the Theocracy and that through the Christ sinful man may be reconciled to Jehovah God. The concept of a literal hell is rejected, as is the inevitability of eternal life. Death in certain instances can mean total extinction.

Witnesses faced active persecution in Germany and other Axis countries during World War II as well as in several Allied countries where their work was banned. In the postcolonial era, they have encountered hostility in a number of new African nations whose nationalism conflicts with the Watch Tower idea of theocracy.

The Witnesses meet in churches called Kingdom Halls, baptize by immersion, insist upon a high moral code in personal conduct, disapprove of divorce except on grounds of adultery, oppose blood transfusions on a scriptural basis, and have won many cases in the U.S. courts establishing their right to speak and to witness in accordance with their belief.

Most members of a local congregation, or "company," are kingdom publishers, who are expected to spend five hours a week at meetings in Kingdom Hall and spend as much time as circumstances permit in doorstep preaching. Pioneer publishers hold part-time secular jobs and try to devote 100 hours a month to religious service. Special pioneers are full-time, salaried employees of the society who should spend at least 150 hours a month in this work. Each Kingdom Hall has an assigned territory and each Witness a particular neighbourhood to canvass. The sect takes great pains to keep records of the number of visits, back calls, Bible classes, and books and magazines distributed.

Publishing activities include books, tracts, recordings, and periodicals, chief among which are a semimonthly magazine, the Watchtower, and its companion publication, Awake!, which during the early 1980s reached a circulation of more than 10,000,000 in some 80 languages.

Of the three corporations that direct the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses, the most powerful is the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania founded by Russell in 1884. The other two corporations are the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Inc., of New York and the International Bible Students Association.

"Jehovah's Witness." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 7 Mar. 2007 <http>.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 09:11 am
Wondering about the belief that only 144,000 will achieve salvation, and of course those 144,000 would all be JW's.

If there are 6 million JW's your odds of being amongst the 144,000 aren't that good.

JW's don't believe in hell, if you're not amongst the 144,000, you just die and that's it.

Considering those odds, and the fact that the worst that will happen is you're just plain dead with no memory....why bother?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 10:04 am
Chai wrote:
Wondering about the belief that only 144,000 will achieve salvation, and of course those 144,000 would all be JW's.

If there are 6 million JW's your odds of being amongst the 144,000 aren't that good.

JW's don't believe in hell, if you're not amongst the 144,000, you just die and that's it.

Considering those odds, and the fact that the worst that will happen is you're just plain dead with no memory....why bother?
It's true that Jehovah's witnesses believe only 144,000 will go to heaven, but when you consider that it is God's purpose for mankind to live on earth, that doesn't seem too unreasonable.

Most of us are familiar with the story of Adam and Eve:

What would have been the result had our first human parents not sinned?

Anybody . . . ?

OK, I'll answer. They would still be here and we would have no war, no crime, no sickness, - - - no death.

Many on this board lament over history's thousands of years of unspeakable human pain and untimely death. Would it help to know that God has promised to restore life to all who have died without knowing him and give them a chance to enjoy the life that Adam and Eve lost?

There's a lot more to be said, of course; and I've said quite a bit of it on this board already if anyone wants to check. But if you really want to know about Jehovah's Witnesses, ask a Witness. I mean ask a flesh and blood Witness who can show you what he believes from the scriptures. You could ask me, of course; but face to face is better.

As for Queen's observation that JW's are out of touch: Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 10:13 am
neologist...thanks, I couldn't remember who it was that was a JW.

Actually, as I said above, I'd be interested in just a plain words explanation of what/why certain beliefs exist. I really just looking at this as a pragmatist, not in a spiritual way. Just looking to clarify some facts.

So, at the "end of the world", 144,000 go to heaven, and everyone else is just dead? That's what I'm not getting.

So, if A&E hadn't sinned, they still would have had babies, and no one would ever die? How are we all supposed to fit on this planet?

How did the archangel Michael turn into Jesus?

I'm really serious, and not being my ususal flip self. This is interesting.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 10:41 am
Chai wrote:
neologist...thanks, I couldn't remember who it was that was a JW.

Actually, as I said above, I'd be interested in just a plain words explanation of what/why certain beliefs exist. I really just looking at this as a pragmatist, not in a spiritual way. Just looking to clarify some facts.

So, at the "end of the world", 144,000 go to heaven, and everyone else is just dead? That's what I'm not getting.
The book of Revelation, ch.7 vs. 14, after describing the 144,000, then discloses an even greater number surviving on earth. Additionally, John 5: 28, 29 foretells the resurrection of those who have previously died.
Chai wrote:
So, if A&E hadn't sinned, they still would have had babies, and no one would ever die? How are we all supposed to fit on this planet?
God told Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 1 to 'fill the earth'. Exactly what would that mean? Well, if you were at a restaurant and asked the server to fill your coffee cup, would you expect him or her to continue pouring until the cup overflowed onto your lap? So, 'fill the earth' must mean that at some time either reproduction would slow down or we would find a way to populate the universe. The bible is silent on this point.
Chai wrote:
How did the archangel Michael turn into Jesus?
I don't think it was a metamorphosis. Jesus is God's firstborn. He had a prehuman existence in which all things were created through him, in much the same way, I expect, that any father would give his son the tools to accomplish his trade. That would make Jesus the foremost angel. By definition, the term archangel means, 'foremost angel', and the name Michael means 'who is like God'. So Jesus being Michael is case of identity. Of course, those who wish Jesus to be identical to Jehovah would disagree.
Chai wrote:
I'm really serious, and not being my ususal flip self. This is interesting.
More stuff available if you are not bored. .. .
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 10:53 am
I had one friend in elementary school that was a JW. She was really about the sweetest girl you could meet. She also seemed so much more mature than the other girls her age. She never really talked about her beliefs other than when put in a situation where it would interfere with them.

I remember during Valentine's Day each year, the class would decorate paper bags with Valentine pictures to tape on their desks to receive Valentine cards. She would never participate. She would simply sit at her desk and smile, while we would hand out cards. I also gave her one even though and would simply drop it on her desk. Don't know if she ever opened them or not. I also remember taking a dance class with her. The last class before Christmas, the teacher handed out candy canes. She politely turned it down stating it was against her beliefs. The teacher felt bad since we were all chowing down on our candy so she offered a life saver instead. She graciously accepted it.

Aside from them coming to the door (always knew as they were they only people walking down the street in suits), I always had a pleasant view of them at least through this one little girl.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 11:16 am
Oh yeah, that's just about respecting a person.

Right after Christmas, I was talking to a oh, I guess 7 year old while her mom was in with the a doctor.

When they were leaving, I asked her if she got what she wanted to Christmas.

She said something like, "oh, we don't do that" so I just said right back, "Oh, ok"

then she looked up at her mom with a look that said she was glad it didn't get into more questions.

I think a lot of people would have asked "why not" Rolling Eyes

grownups can be so dumb.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 11:19 am
I guess the thing that is so surprising about my friend (especially reflecting on it while I am an adult) is how maturely she handled this situations. She never got upset, she simply smiled and answered very politely.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 11:22 am
Our kids can truthfully say they get presents all year 'round and don't have to wait for Christmas.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 11:25 am
I have a friend who's a witness. I like to get him drunk and watch him ogle women.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 11:52 am
neologist wrote:
Our kids can truthfully say they get presents all year 'round and don't have to wait for Christmas.


Do you think the level of gift giving throughout the year in any way reflects on the fact that if you did not, your children might feel a little left out at holiday time, when they see others get gifts?

If you did celebrate holidays where gifts are traditionally exchanged, do you think you would give as many "no reason" presents.

Also, you say your kids get presents from you. Is there a time when they exchange them with you?

I like giving someone I love a gift for no special occassion, but there is a specialness in the exchange. It's a loving reciprocation.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 12:14 pm
Chai wrote:
neologist wrote:
Our kids can truthfully say they get presents all year 'round and don't have to wait for Christmas.


Do you think the level of gift giving throughout the year in any way reflects on the fact that if you did not, your children might feel a little left out at holiday time, when they see others get gifts?

If you did celebrate holidays where gifts are traditionally exchanged, do you think you would give as many "no reason" presents.

Also, you say your kids get presents from you. Is there a time when they exchange them with you?

I like giving someone I love a gift for no special occassion, but there is a specialness in the exchange. It's a loving reciprocation.
There is no rule on this that I know of, but most Witness families have a special day picked out, (perhaps a wedding anniversary) to have a family occasion. Besides weddings and anniversaries, we celebrate graduations and other special events. We encourage our children to give from the heart and show appreciation for their efforts.

That Jesus changed water to wine at a wedding feast is a fact not lost on us.
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 01:32 pm
Im not being aggresive here, but like chai, curious:
Neologist, have you actually ever read Awake magazine?
I am young, I have lots of experience of being young and what young people do. That magazine is completely out of touch with reality. Maybe not in Jehovas witness churches so much, but definately in 'normal' teenage surroundings.
What makes you think that it wouldn't be out of touch?
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 02:09 pm
The Pentacle Queen wrote:
Im not being aggresive here, but like chai, curious:
Neologist, have you actually ever read Awake magazine?
I am young, I have lots of experience of being young and what young people do. That magazine is completely out of touch with reality. Maybe not in Jehovas witness churches so much, but definately in 'normal' teenage surroundings.
What makes you think that it wouldn't be out of touch?


I'm not answering from the prespective of Awake, but from a novel I read that was Christian based. It was about a story where certain families or members of the family strayed away from their Christian faith, etc. I think some family member gave it to us.

It was quite out of touch also. It did talk about teenagers having prematerial sex. The thing that turned me off, was in it a girl was talking to her guidance counselor and the counselor was advising her to have a sex with a boy that had aids - it did suggest she use protection, but really what counselor would suggest such a thing? I can't imagine even the most liberal person suggest such a thing. She did end up getting aids by the end of the story of course.

Although some of these types of "literature" may be designed to be helpful, or to give good advice for young people (old people for that matter), it is so unrealistic and over exaggerated, it becomes more a source of amusement than what it was designed for.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 02:20 pm
Don't want to stray too far from the subject, but that bit about the guidance counselor suggesting the girl have sex, let alone sex with a person with AIDS...

Now, I'm not saying this in the context of Witnesses at all, but rather some other faiths that are very very very fundementalist.

I could see where some church, one that teaches its children that they are the only chosen people, could advocate writing something like that. It would be like "See what THOSE people would have you doing"?

Just another turn on the old "look what the jews/catholics/muslims/snake handlers would do if you got into their hands."
0 Replies
 
 

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